To wonder where all these peoples spend there money?

[choiceofwords]

I have a household income of around 50k. We eat out regularly, nice and quiet neighbourhood, DC always in nice clothes, run a nice car, save a little.

I am quite a big spender and not great at watching what I spend so I don't feel comfortable because I'm careful with cash.

Yet people, multiple people on MN, often seem to start threads suggesting anything below much more than this is poor?

I really don't understand it.

I have friends on much less that still do nice things like go out and on holiday every year. Obviously the same won't be true for everyone on similar incomes but I just wondered where these 'anything less than 100k' tribes are coming from.

This is such an interesting topic. So many different lifestyles due to where you live, how many DC and other lifestyle choices. I'm not UK based, but we live in a s/central-ish European capital. Have no DC by choice (not money related), combined earn what would be considered poor here, but cannot be effectively compared due to different countries. But the number is still not very high for our country too.
We own a one bed central app, top location, mortage paid off after a few higher earning years. DP is the saving type I unfortunately the spending, but we separate our finances. We have three cars, two sports and one (literally) eye sore. All older and paid off. We travel, shorter trips, city brakes, summer holidays, skiing. All easy accesible as we live a few hours drive from most attractive locations in Europe, so that makes it lower cost. I mostly manage to secure a bargaing so that helps too. We eat out occasionaly and grab a coffee now and then, but nothing fancy. We have pets and I support a charity which is very important to me and that costs a lot - compared to comfortably raising one DC. I spend too much on non essential luxuries and organic food so am constantly in the red. We are now entering a few years of saving as we're slowly but steadily building our country holiday home, so no more skiing and way less travelling. We'll probably sell one car and I'll have to curb my spending.
I think living in a small app helps, costs wise. Also the not having to fly everywhere when travelling or renting a car when there.

@choiceofwords re UK holidays - the only way I've found to holiday in the uk for less than going on a cheap package abroad is to camp.

But even that's not cheap. Last year we were looking at campsites in Devon and found one that looked ok until we went though the booking process and discovered it was going to cost us £1200 for two weeks to pitch our tent. We eventually found one that was £800 but it turned out to be dreadful once we were there.

Add in the cost of petrol to drive there , the food you buy to self cater and the going out to eat at local pubs and restaurants. Then there is the cost of parking at the beach , drinks and ice creams etc plus entrance fees to places of interest.

This is without taking into account the cost of all the camping equipment ( we've spent at least £2.5k on that over the years )

If we didn't love camping so much we would certainly ditch it for an all inclusive deal in Spain!

It makes me laugh when people suggest camping as a cheap holiday option.

I'm on 8k a year part time but do alot of overtime so I'm doing 45 to 50 hours a week coming away with 1400 a month after tax and after rent council tax electricity gas transport and kids school dinner money there isn't anything left over to spend. A holiday is something other people do... My kids get new clothes mines are from the charity shop, cant remember last time I bought myself anything new! I don't complain tho I'm genuinely happy

@AngelsWithSilverWings I find UK holidays expensive as well. This summer we went to Spain, I upgraded our flights (I’m too tall for standard economy), we had a villa with pool and a housekeeper who cooked etc.

Including spending money it was cheaper than our holiday in Cornwall where we stayed in a hotel that was halfboard.

The activities in Spain were also cheaper as well, we went to a really good waterpark that was £30 for both of us. I doubt Alton Towers waterpark is that cheap.

Dowser - because fil owns part of our house according to social services. We'd have to sell it and give him the money and be homeless. Instead we have 2 mortgages and pay his care costs. But he has just qualified for CHC funding (only for a portion of his costs I think) so that will reduce what we pay. Altho we can't pay back the mortgage without a penalty for a few years even if we had all the money back.

Also my Mum retired about a year ago with no savings or private pensions (neither has dad) so I employ M&D to do stuff round the house, as without that income they would struggle. We pay for them to come on holiday with us too as they wouldn't be able to afford a holiday if not.

Obviously if we didn't go on holiday then we'd save about £10k a year but at the moment we have prioritised holidays with my parents over savings.

I think private school fees round here are about £1k per month per child, so for 3 kids it's well out of our range even on what DH earns. Not that i'd send mine to private school unless there was some real need to anyway.

We feel very lucky to be in the position we are in tho and we are well off, even if we are always in our overdraft and have no savings atm!

Joint salary of 165k here.
Here’s a breakdown on some of our expenditure per month.
1k - 2 DC at university
1.1k - mortgage
£600 per month food term time and £800 when DC are home which is 5 months a year.
£270 - spa membership for me/gym membership for DH
£500 - commuting
£20000 per annum on holidays. One massive family holiday and 3 other big holidays abroad as a couple.
£600/£800 on meals our/entertainment
£600- pension, employer puts in £1300

For perspective our heaviest expense was the £3k pcm school fees from 2010 to 2014. There wasn't any relief as expected when ds went to uni because we elected to pay his uni fees and all maintenance.

So that was 7 years of £36,000 from net income.

Our other bills have been relatively modest with mortgage repaid years ago but: utilities, council tax, insurances, commuting, cars, dc activities, clothes, hair, tv, broadband, phones, food, holidays, pensions, childcare, house maintenance, etc. I think it was close to £8k at one stage without a mortgage with probably only 1k of that discretionery.

We could of course have sold the house, moved 30 miles out, sent the dc to state schools and luved in clover on £60k but that wd never have worked for a workaholic like dh. It is a sad fact that some high paying careers also come with high expenses: grooming, indemnities, subscriptions, rent, etc and the commitment to those roles means more is spent on subcontracting cleaning, maintenance, etc.

In London £50k wouldn’t go very far at all- mortgage could be £2k or more per month and childcare for one child is £1.5k minimum.

Travel costs, food, bills etc mean you would not comfortable on £50k and increasingly even £70-80k.

Not poor obviously as you can always get food on the table and find somewhere to rent - but not comfortable at all especially with a family.

Average couples I know in London earn over £100k

I think this thread proves why it’s impossible to get fair impression of other people’s finances, just going on their job title, house, car and lifestyle.

There are so many variables including:

• mortgage
• huge deposit
• inherited money
• financial help from others
• bonuses
• investments
• side gigs

And then there is me who is poor

Mrs koala do check chc funding because I don’t think you should be paying anything
Mum had to pay for her care home until she qualified for Chc ( dementia) as her condition worsened
Then it was free because then you come under nhs funding where everything is free at the point of delivery

Before that it’s classed as social funding

The rules havent changed since 1946

People with assets always paid for their care unless they qualified for chc
Also if dad has a diagnosis of dementia, he doesn’t count for council tax..so mum would get single person discount

Also if a person with a diagnosis for dementia lives alone they don’t pay any council tax if they own their home. I got my cousin £8k rebate for her mum when I passed on this information

I got over £2k for my mum

Charmed you obviously enjoy life but wouldn’t you rather spend day £5k less on holidays and pour it off mortgage or into pension
Genuine question..not being a cf I hope
That’s a mega salary for me and all my friends and relatives
I think I’d have a bit of short term pain for long term gain

I can’t praise retirement and mortgage free enough.

All our spare money goes into savings and over paying the mortgage. Being mortgage free is our biggest goal.

We don't really holiday ever, which i would like to do more, We never used to have the funds for it so now the money we could spend on a holiday goes into the mortgage. Maybe one day!

Dowser I understand what your saying but we’re putting over 20k a year into pensions and have been for years. Re the mortgage there’s no real advantage to paying it off at the moment as we have such a low rate of 0.18 above Bank of England base rate and will be downsizing in a few years so will by a house with our equity.

Buy not by.

@PapayaCoconut oh yes. we have this discussion with BIL regularly. they are near Nottingham, PIL do childcare twice a week, get 30 hours actually free hour for the kids (they both earn just below the threshold), and wonder why we gave no money...
we live in southeast (my job only exists here), only get 15 hours (and needs to pay £2 per hour additional as the funding if £4 per hour is ridiculous, and nobody decent overs 30 hours), and have no support from parents/inlaws. our nursery bill is close to £3000 per month, theirs- £1300. That’s a bit of a difference

Charmed 👍
We are here for a good time not a long time
Spend some save was my dads motto and mine.
None of us know how long we’ve got so we need to to have some fun along the way.
You do right .

See I personally am not bothered about being mortgage free quicker. You don't know what your health is going to be like by the time you retire, I would rather enjoy holidays and things while I am young and healthy. I am saving for a pension of course but I could be dead before I get to enjoy it so I wouldn't put ALL my spare money into it.

What pisses me off is people living in Leeds or whatever, wondering what all these "rich" people in London do with all their spare cash.

As someone who lives in Leeds I wonder how people in normal jobs can afford to live in London. For my (professional, masters degree etc) job, I'd maybe earn 5-10k more there, which would all be swallowed up and more by the extra costs. I certainly don't assume that Londoners as a default are rolling around in money.

Agree wax
I think I misread or misunderstood charmed‘S post.
My exh never made his state pension or retirement for eg. But in the 30 odd years we were together we had some cracking holidays....and so did the kids with us
Days out, meals out x5 was a huge hole kicked in our annual budget
If I’d have had my way I would’ve gone for a lovely big house with a beautiful garden but he was all for getting rid of the mortgage...which was tiny in comparison to today’s mortgages

When the marriage shit hit the proverbial fan instead of enjoying my twilight years in a lovely modern and comfortable bungalow with no debt , if we’d have gone for the bigger house he’d have wanted half And that would’ve been me scrabbling around for something smaller in not such a nice area .

It all worked out well in the end. Yes that was the end.

As someone who lives in Leeds I wonder how people in normal jobs can afford to live in London. For my (professional, masters degree etc) job, I'd maybe earn 5-10k more there, which would all be swallowed up and more by the extra costs. I certainly don't assume that Londoners as a default are rolling around in money.

This makes me think of London weighting which would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing, it doesn't come anywhere near the reality of the additional housing cost. Although I would say what I miss most about London is the tube, that was much more affordable than train travel in other parts of the country, in my experience at least.

@Waxonwaxoff0 same, I've never understood the obsession with paying off mortgages early or even retiring young. I'd much rather have the disposable income while we have a young family and are fit enough to truly enjoy it. But then I like my job and feel we have a good work life balance so quite happy to live in the moment. Though we have very good pensions, insurances etc and are paying off a mortgage so it's not that we're being too short sighted.

We spend £400 a month on childcare even though they’re both in school. We also pay for a lot of activities. £8 a week swimming, £10 football, £14 tennis, £15 music lessons as well as beavers. We have days out, meals out and save ridiculously for a holiday a year. We spend a lot on the house too. We have £0 at the end of the month but could cut back on things if needed.

We have an above average household income and I often want to ask the opposite question -how can people on a smaller income seem to be to afford nicer holidays, new cars , eat out more etc than we can?!
I think it's net family income that really counts. DH earns about 90% of our family income and talking gross income can be misleading because there will different tax liabilities and benefit entitlements, including child benefit, depending on how the income is split.
So two incomes of 25k will net you approx £3500 a month, but if it was all on one income you would your net about £400 less a month and start losing child benefit. That £400+ extra a month could go a long way!
Obviously the other big factor is number of DC which will greatly impact disposable income. Housing costs , commute , child care costs etc very greatly so it's very possible to have a good income on paper but not to have much if anything left at the end of the month.
I also have friends who underestimate the financial help their parents give them, whether that's free childcare, helping them out if the boiler brakes down so they don't get into debt or even buying the kids school uniform. It does give you an advantage if your parents are able to help out ( ours aren't!)

It's interesting, OP - your £50k seems to stretch quite far.

If you look at it as around £3,200 per month take home, I think you've said your childcare & mortgage takes up about £2k of that.

council tax must be around £150 per month plus as you're in the South Easy... the. Gas, electricity, car & house insurance.. phones, internet, sky, petrol, food, plus pension savings, saving for DC uni, etc etc.

You say a couple of all-inclusive holidays - even cheap would have to be £1,500+ each?

All on what's left over after house & childcare?
I actually can't see how you have your lifestyle on that income.

Not at all that lots of the above are necessary, but I wonder if your DH has a credit card and/or overdraft that you don't know about?