Average incomes

[flabbergastedfinances]

Found out that the average family income is around £30,000 a year and I can not believe it. I don't know a single family on anywhere near this low, lowest is possibly 70k mark between two teachers but majority have two earners pulling in 40+ each or one higher earner on 80/90k+

How on earth is 30,000 even possible in light of minimum wage and benefits/tax credits etc? What is even more shocking is that I used the where do you fit in calculator and we are apparently in top 98% of families in the uk. No chance, absolutely no chance.

We might have a high ish mortgage (still only £1000 so not outrageous) and have slipped into bad spending habits (Uber's, eating lunch out every day, new clothes now and then) but we are hardly excessive. We can't afford to run two cars, can't afford foreign holidays, can't afford the posher shops like Boden or northface new and yet this chart tells me we have it better than nearly everyone else in the country?! What am I missing?!

We have a child in childcare a few days a week, so that and mortgage are biggest expenses but combined that's only £1500 and I see everyone else buying £300 coats, spending 1000s on holidays, children in private schools and I am utterly stumped.

How can the average family income be £30,000? Which families are surviving on that? None I know that's for sure and I just refuse to believe that's an actual reality

Oop sorry realised you already answered this!

On the expensive areas point I have never been able to afford to live in Central London. We could have afford a flat in Acton when we first moved to London or a small house further out so went for further out but I have always known how little many people earn (being married to a teacher). we started out for 6 months in a school flat when I was pregnant as they could not get teachers to come to the school (as even out in outer London rents and house prices were far too high eveni n the 1980s for many teachers) so the school accommodation helped entice people herer. I slept on a mattress on the floor (no bed at that stage but that's fine even if pregnant).

Where I live here is quite mixed (as is inner London where you get council tenants in £1m flats and some middle class professional in the ex council flat next door they paid £1m for paying a fair bit more on their mortgage than those they subsidise etc).

@morningdread Cleaners or other low earners will struggle with home ownership in most parts of England. People like teachers can afford to buy in London, in the more affordable areas.

Yes but the lower paid struggle more so now there is less social housing or are you saying that's not the case?

Teachers can potentially buy in more affordable areas. It will depend on how much rent they are paying & whether they have a partner.

@LoisWilkersonsLastNerve it’s often because the husband is actually the high earner, not the poster.

I thought you were going to say you were amazed it’s so high.

I earn around £7k a year plus I get £34 a week Child Benefit.

I’ve been living off the child benefit for the last month as my first payday in this new job isn’t until the end of November. I started in early October!

Child benefit has paid my £10 week petrol to get to work and lots of pasta and cheese dinners. My direct debits have all bounced obviously.

My new husband is self employed and earns around £22k he has run a successful business for a couple of decades but this last year or two many customers simply don’t play their invoices, so his earnings are way down.

Our outgoings are £1500 rent and bills, £500 his industrial unit, he’s about £10k in debt taxes etc, I have a £5k child tax credit debt overpayment so. We don’t receive any child tax credits, as awards are paying off the debt, we have two young kids at school, two cars to run both old ones ; it’s one step forward two steps back constantly.

Once the kids are old enough to stay home alone I can go full time instead of part time so I don’t have to worry about school holiday childcare costs and practicalities, but they’re only 10 and 12 and quite ‘sheltered’, not ready yet for staying home alone.

I’m hoping our finances improve in 2-3 years. But I’ll never earn more than minimum wage, and his customers will never suddenly start paying their invoices on time.

We’re in our early fifties, I have a pension of £12k half of which will be taxed, he has no pension. We will live off income support/state pension of around £160 a week (?) for both of us when we’re retired and have to rent a one bedroom flat in a not nice area most likely.

But we’re ok health wise, although he had a heart attack a few years ago and I have bradycardia (no biggie), and a happy attitude will get us through, because that’s free and all we have!

morningdread, I don’t know how much people in lower paid jobs struggle compared to 20 or 40 years ago. However, London still manages to have a higher percentage of people in poverty than England overall. So while people talk of lower earners being pushed out of London, there are plenty of people in poverty around.

But obvs speaking of averages on this thread, perceptions in London are vastly different to many other locations as there are so many more people in professional/highly paid occupations and rates of pay are generally higher.

However, I live in ‘a more affordable area’ and do know of people not earning mega bucks (through conversations about being entitled to child benefit or 30h free childcare for 3yo) and they live perfectly happily in London in nice homes, have holidays, go out and their children do lots of activities etc.

Just wanted to say thank you again to everyone commenting.
It is really interesting reading this alongside the other threads at the moment - the hidden hunger and how do people spend their incomes ones because for every person saying they manage on a relatively low salary, there are some saying they need at least 70 to survive and it's fascinating and terrifying I suppose?

I am really grateful to everyone who has taken the time to explain things to me. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know more, I'm an educated person (two post graduate qualifications) and can't believe I just didn't know this stuff but the truth is I didn't. I now realise how very privileged it is to be able to avoid reading about this and the wages divide in the country and I'm honestly shaken by everything I've taken on board. I just assumed benefits were better, assumed pay was better, assumed a lot and I'm angry at myself for becoming this person or letting myself bury my head in the sand so much.

Thank you all again

However, I live in ‘a more affordable area’ and do know of people not earning mega bucks (through conversations about being entitled to child benefit or 30h free childcare for 3yo) and they live perfectly happily in London in nice homes, have holidays, go out and their children do lots of activities etc.

What are you classing as mega bucks or comfortable earnings? 2 people earning 50k each would be entitled to CB & a family with both partners earning 99k each would qualify for the 30 hours.

@flabbergastedfinances Good on you. Something positive has come out of this thread.

“How can the average family income be £30,000? Which families are surviving on that? None I know that's for sure and I just refuse to believe that's an actual reality” - erm, why have you been wrapped in cotton wool all your life? I work part time 9-2 on 14k a year (both boys at primary so no child care costs at all), then my DH works full time earning 32k.

If I stopped working his wage alone would still cover our mortgage of £840 per month, bills of £900 for all of the bills (council tax band D, Car, insurance, food, utilities etc), and this would leave us with £300 at the end of the month to do what we want with (provided no house hold emergencies come up or car brakes). I work part-time which brings an additional 1k PCM into the house. I just depends what bills you have to pay and whether you have pay for childcare.

I did work full-time and it was working out that I earned the same money as I would working part time (because it’s £30 A DAY to put both children in after school club).

Forgot to say we also get CB for the two children so you definitely have your head in the clouds

Come on guys. Don’t be so mean to the OP. It’s perfectly reasonable to wonder how others have to do with less, when you think you’re slightly struggling yourself.

However much your household income is depends on many things: jobs (obviously) but also region and family situation.

OH and I have a combined gross income of over £120k... but we are in the SE, which means this doesn’t stretch as much as some may think (nursery place alone is around £1500 pcm).

I have some colleagues who are theoretically more senior to me, but have a lower household income due to divorce. As soon as you get divorced, your income basically gets split into two, as your ‘family’ has to maintain two households rather than one. This can sometimes cause tensions at work if a ‘boss’ realises their ‘underlings’ can suddenly afford more than them.... despite said divorce having nothing to do with them.

But I also have colleagues who are ten years younger than me and my husband, more junior, earn less but live a lifestyle we can only dream of (business/first class tickets to far-flung places for holidays... I’m not kidding) due to them being partly funded by their parents.

This is why I get so frustrated with the London bubble. Someone said 'yes you can live in a 2 bed flat on that but it's not ideal'
1000's of families live in flats, not just in the UK but in parts of Europe it is completely normal.
In London now 43% of Londoners live in flats, and even families alone it is very normal and possible to live happily and comfortably in a flat with kids (I know because I do!)
When most posters say 'you need 100k to live where I live' what they really mean is you need 100k to live my lifestyle and mix with my friends on my street.
Yes there are wealthy pockets in London and state schools within those pockets but there will also be a state school round the corner with less well off families living there because all areas in London will have council housing and smaller accommodation nearby.
I've lived in or around London all my life but I find it increasingly frustrating the expectation of what is a 'normal family life'
A friend of mine who earns approx 80k combined income is complaining she can't afford a second child but goes away twice a year, runs 2 cars, out for dinner regularly, coffee shops at weekends etc.
They have no idea what some people are surviving on.

OP I think after a disastrous opening post you've really redeemed yourself, and come across very reasonable.

Haha! Couldn't resist seeing where we fit in... our household earns more than 9% of the rest of the country. Yet I would say we're comfortable. I genuinely would! Fortunate to have a very low mortgage. Depends what you spend your money on I guess.

Our joint income is £22:000 !
No children at home anymore

It's very rare a poster admits they might have misjudged something in aibu. I feel like we're in another dimension on mn Good for you op!

What are you classing as mega bucks or comfortable earnings? 2 people earning 50k each would be entitled to CB & a family with both partners earning 99k each would qualify for the 30 hours.

Yes, 99k x 2 would be high even for London. When I say families not earning mega bucks in the context of London, I mean more along the lines of total family income under 100k and probably more 70-80k combined and a couple of households which I know have family income under 50k. Mostly parents in early 30’s, all home-owners and living normal lifestyles (holidays, cars etc).

Given that the London average salary is 40k per year, those families are what I’d call ‘average’ in London.

I posted up thread about me earning £30 k in a professional role and life being sometimes a bit of a struggle. I don't tend to moan on about finances much to other people as I'm sure they don't want to hear it but was speaking about holidays with someone the other day who has just got back from a half term holiday in Tenarife and I said something like it would be lovely to be able to holiday abroad and feel the sun again, and this person actually said to me "well if you want good holidays you should have worked harder at school" !!! I have 3 good A levels, a 2.i Hons degree, a Master's degree and an additional post graduate Diploma in my specialist area!! How I refrained from punching them I really don't know . It gives me the rage. Especially when these idiotic women like the OP have a great lifestyle riding on the back of their husbands jobs.

Gosh, I wish I earned "the average family income". I earn just over £14000 per year! Can't get any help with benefits. I am single mature adult, with one child still at home [ he earns very little ] so we do struggle massively.

And I totally agree with poster who said that truly intelligent people have curiosity, interest and empathy. I bet OP has never read a book in her life, has no interest in news/current affairs. Her biggest dilema will be if she should get a white Land Rover or a different colour next time!! Why have these vacuous idiots got huge bank balances and so many of the thoroughly decent hard working folk on this thread are struggling so badly? Through circumstances beyond their control? It makes me angry to the core.

How much did you think hospital workers, cleaners, retail assistants, restaurant workers, health care assistant staff earn? Do you not read about the growing use of food banks? Why would everyone in the UK warn the same as your mates?

If average household includes pensioners, students, single parents and single person households I'm really not surprised that the average is 30k.