To think House of Fraser’s refund policy is another nail in their coffin

[Bearbehind]

I bought several expensive and heavy items online with the intention of choosing 1 and taking the others back to my local store for a refund

Turns out you can only exchange or get a credit note in store

If you want your money back you have to post it back at your own cost

Given the weight and value, I’m nearly £30 down for the pleasure.

Surely they can’t afford to piss customers off by refusing to refund in store - what difference does it make to them?

Very expensive lesson learned!

I will never buy from them again

No, but the discussion had moved on slightly from your OP :)

I admire anyone who works in retail - I couldn’t do it.

Too many people are entitled twats and I couldn’t keep my mouth shut

However, that’s nothing to do with the fact HOF not accepting online returns in store makes them uncompetitive

It's just opinion though, isn't it?

Personally I think orders should have to be returned in the same way you made them - so if you order via the website, you should have to return via the same method. If you buy in store, then you can return in store.

It's no different to ordering from somewhere that has no high street presence. You choose to order "unseen" and take the risk that things don't fit or aren't right for you, which is fine, but I do think you should then have to return them in same way. You disagree and that's okay.

Some stores do offer the option for you to drop things off in store but your refund won't be processed until the item is sent back to head office (which the store can do for free) which I think is a good alternative too. Kind of a best of both worlds situation, really.

Personally I think orders should have to be returned in the same way you made them - so if you order via the website, you should have to return via the same method. If you buy in store, then you can return in store.

That would kill the high st stone dead though.

I often only go to a shopping centre to return things I’ve bought and frequently end up buying stuff I didn’t need / want!

I wouldn’t however go to the shopping centre to look for stuff I did need / want on spec as they all stock such limited ranges now

@DGRossetti - I love the idea of organising a vote from the queue - wish I'd thought of that.

@Bananashake - no she was a very articulate Scottish lady who explained at great length that I needed to post it to head office and that I should send it registered post to get proof of the return (it was about a week before Christmas so there was no way I was queuing at the Post Office which probably made me a bit more assertive than usual .)

@Londonmummy66 in that case she was lying that is most definitely not m&s policy and she was very very wrong. I would have complained to head office as she should not be putting that on the customer that is for the store to do. Honestly why do people do this just take the item and refund, its not hard, if you suspect its not kosher you need to have good reason not make nonsense up.

so I work there and businesses are closing due to online sales.
If you bring online refunds instore you want us retailers to lose sales even more ?so the policy changed when sports direct took over .you bought the product online it is your responsibility as a purchaser to read return policy ,least you are even offered an exchange or credit note .what frustrates me you want the convenience of getting this delivered for you but don't want to send it back .it costs for house of fraser to return the product/the packaging/the workload /the driver to ship it back ,the stores are short staffed due to customers not spending but you want us to continue losing money ,retailers can never win .hof stores are still closing and people are losing there jobs and there homes, please think about this when your ordering items and moaning about returning and not getting a refund in store .
Bigger picture !!

gemima you are missing the simple fact that stores who don’t offer convenience to the customer lose custom. A very silly thing for HoF to be doing, given its current parlous financial position. Customers will simply shop elsewhere next time if HoF are difficult about returns. Sometimes in life you have to spend a pound to make two.

Amazon has a lot to answer for!

hof are not being difficult it's the bloody policy ,why even a debate ? point is it we keep giving money away from online sales more stores will close fact, some store don't even offer credit notes .

I often only go to a shopping centre to return things I’ve bought and frequently end up buying stuff I didn’t need / want!

But that only benefits the shop if what you spend is more than the value of what you're returning.

If someone returns £90 of clothes and buys a £15 t-shirt, the shop is still £75 down. If you've returned £90 worth of stuff, you then need to spend at least £91 for the shop to make any money from your visit.

And you need to do it every time. The fact is online returns cost money when they're returned to shops - you may not like hearing it because you like shopping that way, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Not quite the same, but New Look only offer a full refund in store with certain payment methods, but NOT PayPal. I will often choose PayPal to pay, so I have to remind myself every time to get my card out, etc.

To those saying it's easy/cheap to link online systems to in store, it's really not- it costs millions, and I've never heard of such an install going smoothly in any retailer. They normally have to make it all live at the same time, and it causes so many problems and breakages.

As to whether they have empty lorries, so they should send them back in them, it's very unlikely that the lorries will be empty. They will be stopping off at a minimum of 3-4 stores more than likely, so logistically couldn't add returns to the same space as the delivery came out of- they would have to factor in a reverse journey to pick them up.

When you factor in how much time it takes to process those returns, whose sales aren't recorded against your store, even if the actual monetary value doesn't come off your store you are at a financial loss. I used to work at Zara, and we had that many online returns in store at sale time that we used to have to put in a 6 hour shift to process them. We weren't given the hours for this, it came off our already tight budget- basically a full time member of staff. That meant one less person for cusromrr service, which believe me we got a lot of flack about! Plus then we had hundreds of items to process- tagging, labelling, either trying to put it away in an already full stockroom where there was lots to do, or scanning, boxing and labelling it up to be transferred out. Again, no hours given.

I know none of this is the customers issue, but I'm just trying to show that it is NOT a cost friendly exercise. If HoF is running on its knees, then it's possible if just doesn't have the money to do it.

hof are not being difficult it's the bloody policy ,why even a debate?

Because my whole point was it’s out of line with its competitors and pretty much everything HOF sell can be bought elsewhere, hence adding to their decline for the sale of something that could easily be resolved

point is it we keep giving money away from online sales more stores will close fact, some store don't even offer credit notes

Any company that treats online sales as competition to in store sales is heading for trouble. They are still company sales.

In a lot of customer facing industries, the bricks and mortar presence is an expensive necessity - they simply won’t be as profitable as the on line element so shouldn’t be measured in the same way

Not quite the same, but New Look only offer a full refund in store with certain payment methods, but NOT PayPal. I will often choose PayPal to pay, so I have to remind myself every time to get my card out, etc.

That does actually make sense to me.

I can see why many stores only have the ability to refund payments in methods they accept.

You can’t pay in store via PayPal, so it follows that you can’t get a refund that way

House of fraser online is now run seperatly to stores . So thats why you cannot refund in store. If you read consumer right you will also see it says if you buy anything and change uour mind because you dont like the colour or it dosent fit you are not legaky entitled to a refund. If online purchase a exchange or credit note can be offered. Can I also point out house of frazer is not struggling. When you take over a business out of administration it takes time to get it up and running again
Bad press is a killer for businesses.

The fact is online returns cost money when they're returned to shops - you may not like hearing it because you like shopping that way, but it doesn't make it any less true.

But the fact is, unless you have a decent refund policy, your company isn’t going to get the sales in the first place because plenty of other places do offer such a policy.

You might not like hearing it because it’s not how you’d like it to be, but it doesn’t make it any less true

hof are not being difficult it's the bloody policy

Yes, it’s a policy that HoF has chosen that inconveniences its customers and will cause them to shop elsewhere, and lower HoF’s turnover.

There’s nothing that can be bought in HoF that can’t be bought elsehere. If one store offers free and easy returns and another limits the return options and makes them more awkward/expensive for the consumer, which one do you think customers will choose?

It’s the policies chosen by your bosses that will cause you to lose your job, not the actions of the customer. Not sure how you can’t see this tbh.

If online purchase a exchange or credit note can be offered. Can I also point out house of frazer is not struggling.

They can’t enforce that because of distance selling regulations - they have to offer a full refund whatever the reason for the return

And, as their competitors offer refunds in store, wherever you purchased the item, it’s not rocket science to work out that their policy will ultimately result in less people shopping there as they have alternatives

Bad press is a killer for businesses.

As is having to assume the cost of p+p in both directions for shoppers who prefer their bedrooms top changing rooms. Let alone the additional staffing, systems, etc

theconversation.com/the-hidden-costs-of-online-shopping-for-customers-and-retailers-109694

For a reasonably expensive item retailing at around £89, there would still be a cost of:

• £3 per item from various overheads if there were no returns of the item.
• At a 20% rate of returns (the average for e-commerce), the cost of returns rises to £11.
• At 35% rate of returns (the average for clothing bought online) the cost of returns is £20.
• At a 70% rate of return (reported by some German clothing firms we spoke to) the item makes a straight loss for the company.

If you buy in the shop and change your mind you don't have a right to a refund.

If you buy online and change your mind, you do. And they can't make stipulations about how you return an item. However, they may not have the ability to take online items back at a retail store and sometimes they have different budgets. I think Phase Eight do this actually, I bought something line I didn't want and took it to the store. I knew they had a policy of only credit note/exchange but they still let the need to tell me about three times they didn't offer refunds. In the end I got a bit cross and said I could read the policy online when I ordered and on the accompanying invoice when I received the item and one reminder in-store would be sufficient.

I do agree their internal budgeting isn't really for the customer to solve.

felt the need

Our company actually has an excellent returns policy - I'm just playing devils advocate more than anything.

We have no time limit on returns and so long as it still has the tag and you have proof of purchase we'll give you a refund - be it six days or six months later.

The only time we can't refund you in store is if you paid online via PayPal and that's due to their regulations, not us.

OP you'll have to take it up with trading standards. I think technically you may be right that they can't stipulate the method of return. Who knows, it may end up in the European Court of Justice as a case of interpretation of the underlying Directive (if we stay in the EU long enough).

They can’t enforce that because of distance selling regulations - they have to offer a full refund whatever the reason for the return I don't think that is right!

You are not returning faulty goods, you are returning unwanted items!

From WHICH

The retailer may have a returns policy stating that it will only give customers a credit note or vouchers for returns. But this must only apply where customers are looking to return an unwanted item.

Additionally, if you are returning your online order up to or within the 14 days from the day you received your goods, under the Consumer Contracts Regulations you can ask for a refund rather than a credit note.

The retailer’s returns policy also can't require customers to take vouchers where an item has been returned due to it being faulty.

Stuff that that shouldn’t matter to you, it’s quite normal in 2019 to buy a whole load of clothes online and return the unwanted instore or for free

And it’s a practice that is very expensive for these stores and cutting into their margins enormously.

I don’t blame them for trying to dissuade it.