To think entering children early for GCSEs is wrong

[inthepacificocean]

AIBU to be concerned about this practice? It means that children don’t have the same preparation time as their peers. I realise for some very talented individuals it might not make a difference but for the most part it doesn’t seem a positive move to me.

Some schools thought it was a good idea, Gin , in this country. A friend of mine was moved up in from Yr7 to Yr9 and sat everything early. They didn’t get top grades and were turned down by their chosen Uni due to a lack of maturity. They were quite bitter about the school moving them as they thought it damaged their prospects and self esteem for quite a while after.
It was a crap comprehensive though - well-meaning enough but without the expertise to extend sideways in subjects.

I did my maths GCSE a year early (quite stressful as the school only offered it to me in the March of year 10 due to timetable classes), I got an A* in that and then in year 11, top set maths sat further maths GCSE, which is essentially useless as a qualification but sets you up better for A level without actually starting A level, if that makes sense. Also got top grade in that, had same workload and number of exams as those in my school doing y11 maths GCSE, and did better in my A levels to boot.

I think maybe schools need to be careful about who they enter early, although mine clearly chose well as I think 2 of the 25 got As and the rest A* so noone really suffered for it.

They also entered the bottom set into foundation in year 10 - those who passed were able to take higher tier the next year for a chance at a better grade, those who failed benefitted from smaller classes and the chance to resit foundation in yr11.

My school only did this for maths, so can't comment on how it would work for other subjects, or if the entire cohort entered early rather than selected students.

@BeanBag7 you are right all have to study science however, I have seen it done where they sit science early with the other choices leaving maths and English until year 11 and other schools keeping science until year 11.
I no longer teach but still have issue with schools pushing to get the 5 good passes including English and Maths using hooky tactics.

Our school do their options in year 10 so that the focus in year 12 can be maths, English and science.

Tunnocks, don't you mean year 9 and year 11?

It’s not right, far too much pressure is put on youngsters with far too much importance placed on education

DS school did not do this and he only sat his a couple of years ago. DH took his A levels when he was 16 including further maths and got all A grades and that was over 30 years ago. I just asked and he did some of his O levels when he was 13 and the rest at 14.

Doesn’t a child being potentially put as a disadvantage worry you, maddening?

Well I obviously did not offer an opinion, I asked "So what is your situation op and why does it worry you in this case?"

As in answer to your hypothetical post musing about whether it was a good thing or not, there are evidently lots of examples where it is, and vice versa, however you have alluded to a specific situation whilst not actually explaining what the situation is that has arisen to have you asking this question on AIBU. So it might be more useful to actually put forward your situation and concerns so that you get some more replies specific to your case.

I don't understand why my question elicited your response but there you go.

The league table system now means that schools have a strong incentive to avoid early exam entry unless they are confident that the candidates will do well. The first exam result counts for school performance tables and, because now we have Attainment 8 and Progress 8 scores, it matters to the school whether a child gets a 5 or a 7, rather than it just being important to get a C under the previous system. The government commissioned research on the impact of early exam entry and found that on average pupils were disadvantaged by it, even if they had the opportunity for retakes. There's a link to that research at the bottom of the page linked above.

Btw, just to be clear, resits still count for the candidate. It's only for school performance tables that the first result is counted. Universities and sixth forms / colleges do not usually look at the timing of GCSEs. I've been keeping a close eye on this for 10 years now as part of a voluntary role helping children with unusual educational backgrounds access qualifications. The timing of your GCSEs is simply below scope for most university admissions departments. I'm aware of one physiotherapy course which requires 7 GCSEs to be taken in the same exam season, but that's exceptional and is the only confirmed example I've found. A-levels are a different matter though, and most unis publish statements about their requirements for A-level timings and whether they accept retakes. I have a document collating many of these statements, if anybody is interested.

My DC's school do this and it seems to work well - they teach eng lit, do the exam in Y10 and then teach eng Lang in Y11. They also split some other subjects (history / RE / sciences) and examine half in Y10 and half in Y11. Plus everyone does maths winter term in Y11 having started the course in Y9 (DS first paper is tomorrow in fact ).
I assumed it was to help the children to do their best by spreading the load but was a bit about starting gcse courses in Y9 and narrowing the curriculum a year early. I've realised lately that they seem to do a few more subjects than some other schools though, so they don't go to 9 gcse subjects in Y9, they will do more like 12-14. Just one of several ways of doing it I guess but it seems to suit my DC so far.

Plus everyone does maths winter term in Y11

Er, this isn’t allowed? The November maths sittings are for resits only.

Hmm well it is happening, unless I am hallucinating an exam timetable (I am tired but not that tired I don't think )
We are in Wales, where November exams are still allowed and most subjects are still modular.

Ah Wales does its own thing, including two maths GCSEs!

Yes it's numeracy non calc tomorrow
Do they count as 2 GCSEs? Or is it one that's just been divvied up into 4 different papers?

2 separate GCSEs, you get different grades for each, I think.

Thank you, I have been wondering about that.

Schools, generally, only put pupils in for GCSE early if the candidate demonstrates that he or she can do well.

I think it is a good idea. It's out of the way so there is more time to study other subjects that the pupil will be doing.

Someone I know has a son who three before he was fourteen, all A*.

Even back in the dark ages when I did O levels a few of us did a couple early.

When DD took maths early (in the January rather than the June) all but one student achieved an A*, the one student who didn't achieved an A.

DC's school is a 2 year GCSE, all at the end of Y11, place.

Seems to work well. Further Maths is offered as an after school club for - DD did it and got an A^ .

On the other hand, i was a strange being who was both year accelerated AND entered for O-levels early - so did Maths and French at 14 (followed up by A/O French with Texts and Additional Maths), English Lang in the November when i was till 14, and the rest + the extra French and Maths at 15. Oxbridge entrance exams and interviews at 16 was probably NOT the best plan, though I did get in and took a year out so I arrived at a 'normal' age.

I don't think it was harmful because there was a plan for further study in the same subject ... but i am still glad that the DCs had a much more normal KS4!

My friend's mum is French so she's been speaking French all her life. When she was at school she took her French GCSE a few years earlier and was then able to spend time studying another subject and take another GCSE in addition. That's not wrong in my opinion, that's just good common sense.

It's not a new thing - almost 30 years ago I did my maths GCSE a year early. Got a B so it was then one less to have to worry about it. If I'd failed or wanted to try and better my mark then it would have just been good practice. There's a lot of pressure put on teens now by schools but I think if the child is capable then doing one or two GCSEs early is not a bad thing.

@NewElthamMum13 It would be wrong of me to identify my friends by saying where they work but I know 2 admissions tutors and both have told me in the past that they do look at GCSE timings. They are not saying that it is an essential requirement to have a given number of GCSEs taken in one sitting but that it is one of a multitude of factors that might be considered when trying to determine the suitability of a potential student. They are both involved in selecting for what would generally be considered quite demanding courses and I get the impression that it is the schools that routinely enter their pupils for GCSEs in several blocks that they object to rather than a student who has done the odd exam a bit early or late. I suppose it is harder for them to gauge how a student might manage a heavy workload if they have done GCSEs in several batches rather than all at once. Neither of my friends actually said this explicitly, but I assumed it was most likely to be a consideration if a student was borderline for an offer for other reasons.
For context, we were discussing this over a decade ago when I was researching potential secondary schools for my firstborn as there were very varied practices in our local schools at the time. Obviously a lot has changed since then, though I would guess that if anything the demise of AS levels will have focused the attention of admissions tutors on GCSEs more rather than less?? Anyway, they both independently advised me to go for the school with the traditional approach to exam entries, though that obviously wasn't the only reason for their advice or my preference.

@Elbowedout I'm sure that would be something to worry about if it meant a child was only being examined in a maximum of say 5 subjects at once. At my DC's school they start the gcse course in Y9 and start exams in Y10 as a matter of course but will still be doing exams for 8.5 GCSEs in the summer of Y11. I think their approach is to narrow the curriculum a year earlier, but not so drastically. So they take three years, but study more subjects at gcse depth. DS is set to take a total of 14 GCSEs plus welsh bacc.

I have just been browsing The Medic Portal, and it looks like most if not all the medical schools have changed their GCSE requirements from when DD was looking at applying, as none of them have specified sitting all their GCSEs at the same time, whereas they used to.

This from Sheffield, however:

The GCSE requirements should have been met by the point of application; the relevant GCSEs should have been studied for no longer than two years;

That's interesting Gin - looks like they want the gcse course to be studied over two years but don't mind early exams, or resits for that matter. I wonder how they know when people started learning gcse content, is that on the form or do they know each school's practice or maybe it comes up in interview. DS15 will be my first experience of this since I applied to university myself, so I have literally no idea about any of it!