To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

Already dealt with, read the thread.

@OverTheRainbow88

Any diet where supplements are needed is not a healthy diet... IMO

Quote didn't work first time.. Already dealt with this idea, read the thread.

Being omnivores doesn't mean that we have to eat both plants and meat, it means that we can eat both. Humans have always survived on whatever's around - there have been civilisations surviving almost exclusively on meat, completely vegan and everything in between. Veganism is nothing new, and it's not bad for you at all.

it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

They do directly benefit the child, though. Humans aren't designed to digest cow's milk. Babies are born with the enzyme to break down lactose and digest it, but this is meant to go away in adulthood. Most modern humans have built a tolerance through regular consumption, but just because we've trained our bodies not to puke it straight back up doesn't mean it's any good for us, and it's completely unnatural.

Modern livestock is pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, which we then ingest when we eat them. How can protecting your child from that be seen as anything but good?

Veganism is the cleanest, healthiest way to eat.

How on earth does feeding your child a Whole Food Plant Based Diet 'not directly benefit' them?

I would not hesitate to report someone to social services if I saw them raising their child(ren) as a vegan. Fortunately, most people I know have more sense than to do that.

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@rainingallday

YANBU. I am dead against people forcing their views on their children, and particularly when it could be (and probably WILL be ) detrimental to their child/children's health.

I would not hesitate to report someone to social services if I saw them raising their child(ren) as a vegan. Fortunately, most people I know have more sense than to do that.

You sound pretty forceful yourself. I bet you'd be absolutely lovely if your child decided become a vegan. Chill out.

Millions of people have grown up vegan for centuries! Look at the Jains and the Buddhists. I've known several while growing up (Asian community) and not one of them was under-nourished.

Have you not been paying attention a omnivore diet requires supplementation too

Yabu.

Are you aware that red meat is carcinogenic?

Do you support the use of mass antibiotic use in meat?

Until very recently there wasn't the sort of transport or refrigeration that we have in modern life so relatively few people had access to fish.

What part of a whole foods diet concerns you?

If so many people are lactose/dairy intolerant, why is there such a push to encourage children to consume these foods?

Why are children pushed onto cows milk instead of their mothers when research supports breastfeeding and demonstrates lower risks of childhood illness?

I think it can be, with consideration, healthy for some children and even with all the consideration, there are some children it would not be suitable for. If done without consideration or mainly reliant on heavily processed foods, it's probably not going to work so well. Same with adults. Same with other ways of eating and living - as a pp said, it'll likely still be better than what many of ancestors could have accessed hundreds of years ago.

I do sometimes wonder how those who eat for ideological reasons - any diet - how they would manage if they ended up with a loved one who either medically was recommended another diet or took that ideology to an unhealthy extreme as ideologies tend to do. I mean, I've seen the argument that even if it wasn't healthy - and nutrition research on this varies in quality and results - it would still be the right thing to do, to eat a diet that causes the least amount of suffering in the world and - unless they're the types that make everything that they're the best choice for all - it would be difficult to accept.

I ended up doing both extremes with veganism, my chronic low appetite is not compatible with it and because I was doing it for moral reasons, I kept finding issues with other products to the point I really had to step away, make a clean break, and accept good enough even though it still niggles in my mind at times.

Like, I still find it difficult to take a vegan seriously if they tell me they're eating that way to reduce suffering, but still eat cashews without a care of where they come from - the burns and blisters many of the mostly women get, and few businesses provide protective clothing. There are so many places that produce produce and grains that involves horrible work conditions, child labour, causing issues with the local economy for Western benefits. If one digs far enough into unethical practices in various industries, one could end up with nowt to eat.

We all have to find our own balance and most children can be fine on many of the diets their parents pick. It's far more to do with considering the range of needs than whether the protein comes from chicken or beans.

Agreed. Veganism can be a valid and healthy choice, but it's just that - a choice. It's a diet that purposefully excludes a large range of foods and it should be up to the individual, even if that individual is a young child, to make that choice.

@ohhhhlivia

No.

I'm not making a moral judgement about veganism per se. The point I'm making is that food is not just about nutrition. Lots of people on here are responding to the thread saying that it is perfectly possible to get good nutrition from a vegan diet. It is, but you're making it more difficult to be part of the society we live in. Food is a common social lubricant and transmission of culture. If you're constantly having to say 'thanks, but no thanks' you're restricted.

I also dislike the idea of some food being seen as morally better than other food. That's dangerous.

For those who have children they feed a vegan diet, how would you respond if your child asked for non-vegan food. Would you deny them?

Similarly, if you found out they were eating non vegan food at friends, school etc would you be upset/angry/disappointed?

Healthy veganism is the easiest thing in the world now! The supermarket is full of animal free choices. Eating animal products is entirely unnecessary at any age, and is bad for your health - especially dairy.

This thread is absolutely batshit 😂 imagine reporting a family because they don’t eat meat and dairy! Dairy is pretty odd to eat if you really think about it - there is no way people “need” it in their diet. A lot of Asian communities don’t eat dairy, they seem to be getting by ok.

Why do you care so much what other people feed their children?!

@BinkyBoinky
Most Jains aren’t vegan. They drink milk.

The forcing views things is ridiculous. I went mostly vegan aged 11 and truly wished I'd not been 'forced' to believe meat and dairy was okay. Just because something is more common than another thing doesn't mean it is right for all.
It is only less simple to have a balanced diet because of it not being widespread yet. Not because anything is fundamentally wrong with not eating animals or their secretions.

I honestly did try my best with veganism for four years. I ate tons of fruit, vegetables, legumes, grains - bought all the books I could find and ate what I considered to be a very healthy diet.

Personally, it made me feel ill after three years. I kept persisting, and my blood levels were all fine, but I just felt rubbish. No energy, terrible skin and hair.

I added lots of fish and lean meat back in (never did enjoy dairy) and I felt so much better! It was like being alive again!

I feel nothing but admiration for those that manage to keep veganism up, but it just did not make me feel good.

I think any healthy diet is suitable for children - if they aren't "fussy" eaters or don't have a health contraindication eg ARFID, allergies, etc.

So, to address the original question, I think it is a non-existent scenario. No one is going to be hung up on dietary preferences if there is an actual medical condition to manage. It'll simply be a coincidence if the hypothetical child is eating vegan food or dairy food or chicken nuggets - it might be the only food they tolerate.

(And, FWIW, I don't think vegan or veggie diets are hard to understand. As Phoebe Buffay would say, "No food with a face." You're only inflicting your dietary prejudices on your kids if you won't allow them to ever choose to switch from omni to veggie/vegan and vice versa - assuming finances permit. I'm afraid vegetables are cheaper than meat. Tbh, even a bag of potatoes is cheaper than a block of cheese.)

YANBU. I could give a very fair sided rant tbf but i cba.

What I will say is that it is not healthy or normal if the vegan diet needs to be supplemented. And most vegans supplement.

Agree it seems deeply unfair that the child has no say in it.

I think being vegan can be ok for adults but I would not want my child to be vegan. My concern is that while we know a lot about the micronutrients that humans need to survive, we don’t know everything - and I think eliminating a whole category of foods from a child’s diet - foods that humans have eaten ever since we became human - I think that’s risky.

I think what is ideal is to have a diet based predominantly on plants - but have small amounts of animal protein - whether it’s meat or dairy or eggs.

DD has a limited diet (allergies) and if I could do anything to change that I would. I would love that she didn’t have a limited diet. Could get on a plane anywhere in the world and eat what she wanted. Instead of having to check ingredients and with chefs every time she eats something.

I think limited diets are a bit sad. We all make choices for sure, lots of meat, very little meat etc. I don’t eat much meat, in fact many of my meals are accidentally vegan. However I am free to eat what I want. If I was stuck somewhere I could eat whatever there was. I’m sad my DD doesn’t have that choice, I can’t imagine choosing to limit her choices. Every bloody party we went to where she could eat nothing, not being able to go to friends for tea.
Most vegans I know can’t eat dairy and meat products, it makes them ill, i imagine that reaction is worse if you are vegan from birth?

My eldest is vegan, she was vegan as a baby/young toddler too. Not because we're vegan but because she is milk/egg allergic and wouldn't eat meat as a baby, now she's chosen to be vegetarian like me (she's 3) and we're respecting that. Her dietician thought her diet was really good and now she isn't a fan of cooked veg but has loads of raw veg so I'm not worried. I think it depends massively on the child and family. I work with a child who is supposed to have a mostly vegan and healthy diet, parents give her free choice away from home and she dives for meat and chocolate and sweets if it is offered!

I haven’t read all threads as there are 67848768 and the first 2 made me angry enough.
@rainingallday my son is currently eating delicious vegan meatballs in a homemade tomato sauce with pasta. Then he’ll have mango and banana for dessert. Shall I PM you my address so you can get social services around here pronto?

B12 is found in SOIL. Animals eat it through the grass they eat. Animals that are eaten by humans are fed with foods heavily fortified with B12 as of course they’re not fed grass and lovely natural things these days. They’re also pumped with antibiotics and hormones. So the B12 that meat eaters are getting is 2nd hand through animal feed.

All parents “force” their beliefs on their kids, whether it’s religion, food, cultural preferences etc. I wish I hadn’t eaten animals for the first 13 years of my life.

Just feed your kids what you feel is best and what is good for your family.

I would not hesitate to report someone to social services if I saw them raising their child(ren) as a vegan. Fortunately, most people I know have more sense than to do that
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As if Children's social care havent got enough to deal with!!
Absolutely barking mad.
Don't give a hoot anyway. I would DEFINITELY report you.
We would just roll our eyes, have our time wasted to see what the issue and close the case and think you were a vindictive busy body who had a vendetta against someone.
I'd rather someone fed their kids a well thought out vegan meal than the highly processed , beige poor carb meals I see in many visits into family homes.

Not read the whole thread but @Noshowlomo
Please do not generalise and do try to tell the truth.....
Some animals are grass fed.
Some may have antibiotics when needed- but these are strictly controlled.
None in the UK will be injected with hormones

I've never met a vegan who wasn't very knowledgeable about their diet and nutritional requirements so I think yabu. Feeding a child on a fast food diet with no reflection or focus on nutritional requirements is where the problem lies.