To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

Animal products aren’t a requirement for a healthy diet, I don’t think raising a kid vegan is any more unreasonable than making them eat meat.

As I have pointed out at least once in this thread, the numbers of pigeons, rabbits and various other animals are routinely controlled to allow crops (including organic ones) to be brought to harvest. I have never yet had a sensible answer from a vegan about what the alternatives might be.

As a point, that rests on the assumption that meat is produced from animals solely reared on pasture. It's not, even in the UK. To meet British demands, we're moving away from grass-fed lifestock to barn-raised and even feedlots. www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/29/revealed-industrial-scale-beef-farming-comes-to-the-uk

If lifestock reared for meat are routinely fed crops grown for the purpose, too, that means more rabbits killed than if we were solely subsisting off crops directly. In terms of just calories, feeding a cow anything humans could have eaten, or anything grown in place of something humans could have eaten, in order to eat the cow later is incredibly inefficient. If you want a pound of beef, it takes a lot more than a pound of food for the cow. A lot more. That means more dead rabbits.

So if we want to minimise the amount of animals we kill to protect crops, then we shouldn't be growing crops for cattle.

Trophic levels for beginners, and energy loss at each level: www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z2m39j6/revision/6

As I have pointed out at least once in this thread, the numbers of pigeons, rabbits and various other animals are routinely controlled to allow crops (including organic ones) to be brought to harvest. I have never yet had a sensible answer from a vegan about what the alternatives might be.

I will answer this - I assume meat eaters don't just live on meat, they also eat grains and veggies. Well, I eat the grains and veggies but not the meat. I actually eat less crops than a meat eater because they eat it as well as the animal that ate TONS of it before that animal even hit their plate.

I can't believe this is still going on.
I'm not sure anyone is going to "win" or agree here.
So I'll be watching from the sides, eating my vegan lunch, no doubt doing my future, unborn children damage because my b12 is low 😎

@McCanne

Animal products aren’t a requirement for a healthy diet, I don’t think raising a kid vegan is any more unreasonable than making them eat meat

Are you crazy? Presenting common sense to the OP. It’s almost like you are saying something perfectly reasonable and sensible that only someone looking for a fight could disagree with...

You still haven't answered the question about how to control rabbit etc numbers without culling.

I totally agree that feeding good quality grains to livestock is wasteful. However a lot of fodder is made of stuff not fit for human consumption. Added to that, animal manure is good for the soil - and there is a lot of land in the UK not suitable for crops which can still produce good quality protein. It's not simple. At all.

I honestly gave up when it was obvious the OP and a few others were nothing more than concern trolls.

I posted plenty of academic and health body sources to refute moronic claims by some in this thread.

Lurkers will be able to judge for themselves.

Thanks for the other vegan parents that have carried on.

For others, please stop with the 'i'm not sure vegan children can get all their vitamins'. Yes,they can.

It's like me saying - your children can't get their b12 without eating animals that have been given their fortified cobalt/b12 feed.

You still haven't answered the question about how to control rabbit etc numbers without culling.

Because that's just a variant of "you can't be perfect so why bother". At this point in my life, I find interactions go much better if I refrain from saying what I think about that line of thought whenever I possibly can. I am presently in a very good mood, therefore I can.

It’s not, and this is why those not blinkered by the taste of bacon are trying to wake people up.

All this sentence really did was remind me how much I love the taste of a bacon sandwich!

Because that's just a variant of "you can't be perfect so why bother"
No, it's not. It's a valid question. It's one of those where vegan ideals crash head-on into reality.

If you say so. As far as I can see, my present choices require the deaths of fewer animals (and fewer humans) than the other, and that is sufficient.

Vitamin B12 deficiency is a real risk with a vegan diet as are calcium deficiencies. There are risks of stunted or delayed growth and cognitive development.

I think that Vegans should give their kids a vegetarian diet until the age of 7/8.

A vegan diet causes FAR fewer deaths than a meat based diet. I'm sure I read somewhere that the average meat eater consumes directly or indirectly 10 times more plant matter than a vegan. That is more energy used, more culling, more inadvertent animal deaths in addition to the ultimate death of the captive animal too.
It also isn't just about death it is about the suffering and brutality involved in lifetime confinement.

You still haven't answered the question about how to control rabbit etc numbers without culling. I'm gonna also say Because that's just a variant of "you can't be perfect so why bother" as JamieVardy said.
Am sorry but again, its looking for holes in a reason to be vegan. You might say it isn't but it really is.

I'm sure I've already said that I and most vegans TRY to be cruelty free as much as we can. There is going to come a point where we have to intellectually say that animals might be harmed somewhere in the food process of veg/grain etc, but surely a life on a dairy farm or intensive pig farm and the absolute hell horrors of a slaughterhouse that will await them at the end of that life, that is a constant undeniable FACT and is the thing people should be looking at, yet its always skirted around in these arguments. People talk about 'oysters' or 'culling' instead as if that's a reason why I should now say 'oh well better start eating animals'. Why's that then?

Vitamin b12 deficiency, my blood tests have always shown my levels of iron and B12 are great. I eat a good varied diet though.
It isn't a magical nutrient, and the only reason meat eaters get some B12 is because they are getting it second hand from the animals they eat, who get it originally from soil.

@VeganCow

It's a waste of time trying to explain to some people that they take their 'supplement' through an animal.
Btw it's not just soil, it's shots from vets for poorly animals and cobalt fortified feed.

@poiuyt123 Yes it is, thanks for adding that too. However we must remember that too much info all at once may overload their brains , they've been struggling so far to keep up

Vitamin B12 deficiency is a real risk with a vegan diet as are calcium deficiencies.

A couple of slices of Vegemite on toast and tofu & broccoli a couple of times of week would sort that out. And maybe take a supplement.

What’s the point in eating a meat-heavy cancer-causing diet for things you can easily get on a vegan diet?

A non vegan diet doesn’t automatically mean a meat heavy cancer causing diet.
I find hysteria on both sides of the argument in this thread.
Vegetarians obviously don’t have a meat heavy diet. Pescatarians also don’t have a meat heavy diet. I’m sure there are a percentage of people who have a very meat heavy diet but I think most people who eat meat, particularly red meat, eat it in moderation. I have to say that I don’t personally know anybody who eats red meat on a daily basis. I probably eat far too many eggs and possibly too much chicken but I’m not concerned about dropping dead of cancer. I could be killed in any number of random events so I just try to live a happy life and enjoy my varied diet.

namechange46 If your children are very very healthy why do you need to give them vitamin supplements ?

@lowlandLucky namechange has already explained that its recommended in under 5s. The shelves in pharmacies and supermarkets are full of vitamins. There are only a few aimed at veggies and vegans, the rest are for the gen pop so it seems that people who like to stay healthy take vitamins regardless of diet.

@lowlandLucky are you anti supplements?

I could actually be convinced to switch to being vegan if I didn’t have a household which also has people who need to be nut free, soy free, tomato free and wheat free but being vegan on top of those exclusions would mean a really bloody bland and uninteresting diet. So I’m sticking with eggs and chicken and the odd bit of red meat and if I get cancer prematurely all the vegans can tell me it’s my own fault and what I deserve for contributing to animal cruelty. We are already dairy free on top of the food groups mentioned above and I do find that we have to avoid a lot of vegan friendly foods because they use nuts as a substitute.

@Totallycluelessoverhere I would also be concerned being vegan if you had to be wheat, soy and nut free

Few points -
To the posters saying oat / soy shouldn't be called milk. What should we call peanut butter
To those who use the supplement angle to say Veganism isn't healthy since it can't 'stand alone' I hope you're also anti formula, sliced bread, cereal and most meat products. All of which are supplanted. I also hope you are anti nhs advice of Vitamin D supplements for all.
To those who say a vegan diet restricts bonding and socialising. I hope you're also anti religion / culture that may follow different diets to your own. I also hope your children don't befriend anyone with allergies as how will they possibly get on.
To the posters insistent that we need to consume milk as babies therefore ''animal products'' are needed throughout our lives. Please go into your nearest field and offer the sheep / cows etc a ham and egg baguette because obviously they need it...
To the OP who believes it's a choice to provide a 'less than optimal vegan diet to children' what is your opinion on women who can BF but formula feed. Are they also 'wrong'
To the op who thinks a fish is a mobile vegetable... well I'm all out of advice there