To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

If you would like to believe I'm a teenager who hasn't had a baby and breasted then go ahead I can see it's making you feel better

Obviously you haven't- you would never, ever try to shame for someone for formula feeding otherwise. I have never met a mother who would do that. It's actually the worst thing I have seen on MN- and I have been here for ten years.

I EBF for two years with the last one, by the way.

ohhhhlivia Where did I say that breast milk isn't vegan? It's indicative of the nutritional benefits of animal products, as is the point that young babies need an animal product before six mothers. Either from their mothers or from a cow. Saying that babies do not need cows milk is completely disingenuous as quite a few women or babies cannot breastfeed. Formula is not always a choice. Veganism is a choice is the majority of cases.

Nutritional benefit of animal products, is it?

So you're arguing that as lambs (infant sheep), calves (infant cows) and foals (infant horses) need milk until they're old enough to be weaned, t is animal neglect not to supplement their plant-diet with the eggs and cheese of another species once they're on solid food then?

If needing milk for the first six months means humans need to have cheese and eggs for the rest of childhood, it means the same for all the other mammals.

Note: I am not personally arguing for making omelettes for horses. I would no more make a horse an omelette than I would give a dog chocolate, and I feed all my pets a species-appropriate diet, based on biology and veterinary guidance.

@Totallycluelessoverhere but I only have to step outside/turn on my tv to be bombarded with messages that meat is good and healthy. That it is ‘the best’ way, it is ‘normal’, traditional. That any other choice borders on hysteria.

The truths about meat and dairy consumption are hidden from society.
We take our children to the farm to see the lovely baby animals, they get fed a burger or similar on the way home, but the process and reality between the two is hidden away. This is what vegans and vegetarians think everyone should be aware of. Make choices, but make informed ones. Your meat comes at a massssssive cost- to the animals, to the planet, to you who is eating it- the links between major health conditions/the climate crisis are know but constantly overlooked- why????!!!!! Why is this ok???
It’s not, and this is why those not blinkered by the taste of bacon are trying to wake people up. Generation after generation of us were fed meat unquestioningly- because the impact of meat industries/health concerns weren’t known(/it was the war and everything was scarce so people just had to survive). We haven’t got these excuses now so now is the time to do something. Just because something has always been done one way, doesn’t mean it is right.

How many meat eaters can honestly say they they visit a slaughterhouse regularly with their children? Visit the burnt out remains of the rainforest been used as land to raise cattle for meat? That they honestly know what goes into their kids food?

I know that in our pasta dish, in our vegetable wraps, in our salads there are no hidden nasties, no blood or puss, no innocent animal suffering, no brutality, calves have not been dragged from their mothers at birth, no chicks have been gassed or ground up etc etc for my meals. It’s called a conscience, integrity, doing the right thing.

For so long anyone with an ‘alternative’ view has been belittled and laughed at, when it is well known that actually what they are saying is recognised as true!!! Yes you might see a few shared social media posts of an evening, but that’s nothing compared to the brainwashing the meat and dairy industries have been privy to- for decades.

ohmydarling I think it’s an assumption that meat eaters don’t know where their meat actually comes from / how the animals need have been killed etc. Posting a slaughter video or an animal cruelty video isn't going to make somebody vegan, it will likely just make them eye roll and think that the person posting has a superiority idea.

We don’t consume dairy or any dairy products in our house for health reasons. We rear our own hens and chickens and eat the eggs that they produce and yes I am quite happy to eat a chicken that I have reared. I don’t eat fish and choose my red meat carefully. My children know where meat comes from, they know animals have to be killed for them to eat their meat (well the two year old doesn’t understand yet because he is too young to comprehend it). I don’t need propaganda videos to help me make food choices.

Even in your post you say it is ‘doing the right thing’ which gives me the impression that you feel your choices are superior to the choices of others regardless of how well informed their choices might be.
My hens are not harmed in their production of eggs and I am happy to eat dead animal flesh. My biggest concern is actually the environmental impact of rearing animals for food but a lot of the dairy free alternatives are loaded with palm oil and that is also bad for the environment.
There is no need to demonise people for the food they choose to eat.

And if you eat chips etc from takeaways or in cafes and restaurants chances are they aren’t actually vegan at all. The oil used to fry chips in the vast majority of places is shared with frying fish and chicken and other other foods. It’s actually really hard to avoid all traces of animal products if you want to eat out in places that are not specifically vegan.

@OhMyDarling great posts, totally agree.

@Totallycluelessoverhere cross contamination like you describe is ethically vegan, so it doesynt make someone not vegan if they eat chips cooked in the same oil as fish.

@ohhhhlivia do you see any irony about your outrage of my formula 'shaming me comments and the fact this entire thread is attempting to shame my child's entire diet?

No. Formula is not a choice for many people. It is also specifically designed for babies- that is the driving force behind it.

The driving force of giving your child a vegan diet is your own conscience, nothing else.

@ohhhhlivia I'm sorry you find the formula comments so difficult, but formula is a choice for lots of parents (which is completely their choice to make) for lots of reasons, some which have been outlined in this thread. Formula is a completely reasonable choice for some parents to make for their babies and veganism is another completely reasonable choice for some parents to make for their babies.

The driving force of giving your child a vegan diet is your own conscience, nothing else

As people have repeatedly said on this thread, there are other benefits to a vegan diet for children, you just refuse to believe them. To be honest you are coming across very narrow minded - not sure if that's your intention?

I had my DD 1 year check today - she has moved to 75 percentile for both height and weight (was born on 50th for both) smashing all her development milestones, and the HV was very happy with her diet. So that's a HV, two dieticians and two paediatricians who havent blinked at my daughter being vegan and are very happy with her development.

I will continue to use my own conscience, research, common sense and medical advice over the ramblings of OP who seems to have a strange vendetta against vegan parents, when really, it's none of her business ✌️🌱

I find the shaming of formula feeding parents offensive. The comment has been removed after I reported it- my response calling her a vile bitch was also removed which was fair enough.

So, what are the benefits to a baby of a vegan diet? As compared to a good omnivores diet? All I can see is a lack of at least one vitamin and fewer opportunities to get others.

So because I chose vegan you can shame me (or attempt to)
What about mothers gang choose formula when breastfeeding is an option?

Just to be clear I didn't shame formula freezing parents.

I accused OP of having some form of guilt issue about FF herself (which may explain her obsession with it)

I haven't shamed anybody- I've asked some reasonable questions.

To be met with mindless abuse from you- the way you attacked someone for feeding their child a ham sandwich was utterly vile too.

If your choice is so right and good, why can't you defend it without resorting to personal attacks?

I am dead against people forcing their views on their children
But bringing up a child to eat meat/fish/dairy is equally 'forcing your views' on them.

I would not hesitate to report someone to social services if I saw them raising their child(ren) as a vegan.
^ that's not my response, it's ss when you report someone for having a vegan child.

I'm an omnivore, FWIW.

@OhMyDarling, 'no innocent animal suffering' for your diet?
As I have pointed out at least once in this thread, the numbers of pigeons, rabbits and various other animals are routinely controlled to allow crops (including organic ones) to be brought to harvest. I have never yet had a sensible answer from a vegan about what the alternatives might be.

As for the argument earlier that omnivores are more likely to be obese, I can well believe it. But that had more to do with not thinking properly about your diet than with being an omnivore per se. It's possible to be a veggie and be obese, if you carry on eating cakes and crisps and empty calories.

I’ve already reported you if you can’t debate without name calling you shouldn’t start topics

I didn't even report you when you swore at me first time. I don't get emotional on these threads and maybe you need to assess how much an anonymous thread can affect you.
Doesn't bother me to see you swear at me I think it highlights the state you're in rather than me

I highlighted the ridiculous stance of someone bashing a vegan diet when her own child only eats ham sandwiches.

Does nobody else think that mum should focus her time, efforts and research into making her own child's diet better rather than being concerned with mine?

Shaming formula feeding is sick. The amount some women struggle to breastfeed, even for a few weeks is heartbreaking. Then when they get the formula out, they end up feeling hideously guilty for months. It's horrendous. When they have nothing whatsoever to feel guilty for.

Shaming that is utterly unacceptable. Vile, despicable behaviour.

Genuinely shocked to see it on here.

What about mums who can breastfeed but choose formula?
Your argument against a vegan diet is that you believe it's a choice I'm making not to provide optimal nutrition.
What about mums who can BF but FF?

@crispycrisis

I highlighted the ridiculous stance of someone bashing a vegan diet when her own child only eats ham sandwiches

I've asked you before to stop being personal about me and lying about me. My children eat many many things and do not have a diet based solely on bloody ham sandwiches.

You know my child eats vegan, you judge that. I know your child eats ham sandwiches. I judge that.