To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

Here we go again,

'Forcing' the child not to eat meat.

I was 'forced' to eat meat as a child. Never liked it even before I understood what it was.

Take your small mind and go educate yourself you ignorant peasant,

I'm only familiar with one Buddhist culture, but it's one where people happily eat not just eggs and dairy products but also fish, shellfish and chicken. I accept that this is not necessarily true for all Buddhists, but I have never known one who objected to eating eggs and dairy. I've seen Buddhist monks tucking in to Christmas cake made with eggs and probably butter.

I raised the point about Jains being traditionally lacto-vegetarians a long way up the thread.

@formerbabe
Yes breast milk is from a human and we are animals. I'm pretty sure this has been stated repeatedly.

Humans are not really supposed to consume mammalian milk into adulthood

There is no 'supposed' to when it comes to human diets, we are omnivores who have evolved to thrive on a wide range of diets across a wide range of environments. Various groups of us have evolved to consume milk in adulthood, losing the lactose intolerance common to adult mammals, including Maasai people, Mongolian people and European people.

The ability to thrive on milk in adulthood has been a key factor in our ability to spread into marginal environments, such as Northern Europe. Our highly evolved digestive systems are a wonder of nature.

Take your small mind and go educate yourself you ignorant peasant

That's ironic considering the diet of a peasant in mediaeval times was very similar to a vegan diet now! The wealthy ate the meat and other animal products....wonder why?

Ah I see formerbabe is still bleating about bm as an animal product like she’s made some big important point. Aren’t you embarrassed by how limited your debating skills are?

Anyway I’m more interested in the ‘terrible ideas’ we’ve uncovered. What would they be? Carefully considered vegan diets? Breastfeeding babies? Donor milk? Hmm.

YANBU

Rufflecrow

As discussed upthread Jains are lacto vegetarians. Some Hindus are lacto vegetarians but it is not required to be vegetarian. Not all Buddhists are vegetarians (the Dalai Lama isn’t), monks and nuns receiving food as alms are supposed to eat whatever they are given.

Why did people keep claiming various Indian religions have been vegan for millennia, when they aren’t vegan at all and in some cases not even vegetarian.

Why do

I think whether those cultures are mainly vegan or entirely vegan is beside the point. Scientific studies have proved beyond reasonable doubt that the modern meat and dairy heavy, processed carb based western diet is one of the least healthy of any time or place. It increases the risk of nearly every serious illness. All the evidence suggests that a Whole Food Plant Based diet is the single most important change we can make to the food we eat. Whether that's entirely vegan or not isn't a huge deal.

Ohhhlivia

If you can not break bread with someone it's less easy to bond.

If a plant based child brought in treats to school to celebrate their birthday say for example cupcakes with sweets on , they could share their treats with all of their classmates . There would be no dairy in it ( avoiding dairy intolerances) no animal products in the sweets ( no religious reasons on missing out) . If an omnivore child brought their version children could be excluded from enjoying that treat if they are kosher , Muslim , plant based , vegetarian . Its not the plant based child making it less easy to bond in this example, it would be the omnivore child with their dietary choices not breaking bread .

static1.squarespace.com/static/59f75004f09ca48694070f3b/t/5d131024a4f6110001954423/1561530417559/Infant_Milks_June_2019.pdf

The above pages 12-13 explains there are no vegan milks suitable for infants (under 6m)in the UK.

Most infants that are referred to as having a dairy allergy are actually intolerant if cows milk protein. If there mother is unable to breastfeed or is breastfeeding and unable to cut out dairy from their diet are prescribed a hydrolysed formula - this is made from cows milk but the proteins are already broken down.

Infants that are truly allergic to lactose are very rare as we are mammals and so to be allergic to milk isn’t that great for your health. These infants are prescribed an amino acid formula which tastes rank and is not nutritional optimal but is better than death

Most of the increase in diseases amongst modern western populations is down to us routinely living in to ripe old age.

Cancers, heart disease, stroke, dementia etc are more common because we live longer thanks to better sanitation, modern medicine and more efficient food production.

@ohhhhlivia

Citation please

Apologies that should ofcourse have been for @ArnoldWhatshisknickers

RuffleCrow

They are not even mainly vegan. Lots of Hindus eat meat and fish. Only 38% of the population of India is vegetarian and that is the highest % in the world. Most of those will be lacto vegetarians.

By all means argue for a plant based diet but don’t make claims that you can’t back up about veganism in other countries.

Of...?

I want to eat the most sustainable diet I can and remain healthy. I also wish to feed my preschooler the same. i believe we as humans are animals and no more special than any other animal.

The problem is all foods exploit animals in some way. Weather it’s more direct as in eating them or consuming their milk or indirect as using manure as fertiliser or farmed bees to pollinate almonds or palm oil to replace animal fats in soap even down to killing slugs to ensure I get some of my lettuce (the slugs won) or on a larger scale farmers shooting birds to ensure cereal crops are not eaten.

Everything we consume Has the potential to harm the planet. We need to consume less. The choices of what to consume are difficult and there is no simple answer. I have chosen mainly plant based but with minimal local meat fish and dairy - kinda like the medieval peasant mentioned above (and I still have to supplement with vid D and iron) The preschooler gets more dairy as she needs more fat in her diet - young children are less able to digest grain heavy diet. Cutting out the last bit of meat and dairy for me would mean products with more air miles and exploitation of animals as above and more supplements which can do the same. I prefer my exploitation of animals to be blatant not hidden so I can constantly try to reduce and mitigate it, not pat myself on the back while I drink and an almond milk latte

That's ironic considering the diet of a peasant in mediaeval times was very similar to a vegan diet now! The wealthy ate the meat and other animal products....wonder why?

Because much of the land was owned by the king, other wealthy lords and the church. Hunting was outlawed, punishable by death or loosing hand. That's why poor people in the mediaeval times didn't eat a lot of meat. Some other rich greedy fuckers kept it all for themselves. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Veteran I. There's nothing wrong with my comprehension, thanks. you have made up your own definition of Veganism with the non- human animals, rather than the dictionary definition of 'animal products'

The onus really isn't on those defending veganism to show it's healthier - the evidence that the modern western diet is ridiculously unhealthy causing a dramatic increase in everything from diabetes to cancer is already in @ChazsBrilliantAttitude. Those who are slagging off vegans on here are defending the extremely harmful default western diet without question. They're the ones who need to defend their position.

And @Really12345 collecting the manure of an animal and spreading it to grow vegetables is not 'exploitation' by any stretch of the imagination!

Those who are slagging off vegans on here are defending the extremely harmful default western diet without question

I agree the western diet is appalling. The combination of sugar and vegetable oils is incredibly harmful IMO and is often overlooked whilst animal products are demonised.

RuffleCrow
So you are sidestepping apologising for making wholly inaccurate statements about the the prevalence of veganism in other countries and religions.

The modern western diet is unhealthy due to sugar, processed food, portion size etc. Places like Okinawa are not vegan but do have a more plant based, unprocessed diet, however it does not exclude meat or fish. They are the longest lived people on the planet.

poiuyt123

Are you seriously asking for a citation for common knowledge?

Do you really not know that life expectancy has increased dramatically since the advent of vaccines, or surgery, since the Victorians built sewers and piped water systems, since antibiotics were discovered, since large scale agriculture made food cheaper and more variety available to the poor?

Seriously?

Ok Chaz, how about I apologise when McDonalds does? K?