To make a complaint to nursery? How to word it?

[StinkGhoul]

Not even sure complaint is the right word but I feel I need to put this in writing.

We have three year old twins who attend nursery 3 mornings a week. They are both autistic, DT2 also has other disabilities. They both demonstrate lack of danger awareness and sensory seeking behaviours such as mouthing and eating non edible things.

The nursery are well aware of this and have been since they started in January. They’ve told us they closely supervise them to prevent them from choking. On multiple occasions we’ve picked them up and been told they’ve eaten a bit of play doh, which has given them awful nappies for days. The other day I picked them up and found DT2 had two conkers in his mouth. A member of staff said she’d been following him round taking them out.

I should have made the managers aware when those incidents happened and I didn’t. I know how hard it is and I know accidents happen.

But today DH picked them up and one was playing with a box of small beads unsupervised. The other was asleep. When he got them out to the car he realised that the one who was asleep had dark marks all round his mouth and dark stained teeth. He’s obviously eaten play doh again - staff said nothing so clearly they didn’t notice so who knows how much.

We have a draft EHCP meeting next week. I’m increasingly worried about sending them to nursery, what if something happens to them? Similarly I’m worried about causing conflict and pissing off the staff who for now at least are taking care of my children. On the other hand I’m angry, and then again I know they don’t yet receive funding for 1:1 support...

How do I broach this? AIBU to put this in an email today? I think they want the boys to get specialist placements but I’m not sure that’s going to happen to be honest.

Ahh I really feel for you. It doesn't sound safe. I would really push for the ehcp and try to get it moving as quickly as possible to hopefully bring in the funding (however they are notoriously slow). I'm not sure what the answer is at the moment. They haven't got the staff for the supervision needed. I probably wouldn't send them in. Are there specialist nurseries anywhere nearby?

It’s difficult because you can never guarantee 100% shadowing for each toddler at nursery when the ratio of adult child is something like 6 kids per adult (and I think this only applies to private nurserys and not ones attached to a school).
Would you be able to afford to send them to a childminder instead of nursery?

Hard as it is for you, nursery can’t offer the level of supervision they require without much more funding so I think you need to withdraw them until you get it in all honesty

I would withdraw them for their own safety. Nursery seem like they are trying but with no extra support it’s going to be a losing battle for you.

If it causes a conflict, then it confirmation that this setting can't meet the needs of your children. A meeting with the manager should be calm and factual , there is nothing in your bringing this up that should cause a defensive reaction from the nursery, simply an apology and either the actions that rectify the issues or admissions that they aren't able to meet this level of care.
Don't feel like you should have bought it up sooner, sometimes other things take priority, and fighting your children's corner can be a learning curve too.

I also agree you shouldn’t feel guilty about bringing this up, they may have been able to cope but obviously at the moment they can’t. It’s no one’s fault really.

This nursery can’t cope with the needs of your dc. You need to find a nursery that can cope, look at a childminder or find another option

Complaining isn’t going to make the nursery able to meet your dc needs as they clearly need extra funding to do this

I have two autistic DS who both went to mainstream nursery and it's been a struggle for both us and the nursery.
We have just applied for EHCP for our DS4. However we got some 1-1 funding through the LEA before that - it's called something like early years intervention funding in our area. It wasn't loads but helped the nursery a lot.
I would suggest exploring avenues with LEA for pre-EHCP support, looking at an enhanced resource nursery or pre-school where they will have the resources to deal with it, or considering having them at two different settings - sounds like a strange suggestion but might ease pressure? for you because it's so hard!
When my eldest went to a special school setting we heaved a sigh of relief tbh.

It sounds unsafe so firstly I think you should withdraw them.

I think you should make a huge complaint and make ofsted aware that they’re not meeting basic safety needs.

I’m not sure that a nursery setting is going to work with two that are mouthing everything. I just don’t see that they could supervise closely enough to be 100% sure they weren’t doing something risky. There might be some set-ups that work better than others though. Eg at mine there is a shared room for 2-5 but the 3 plus kids go into a small room for small piece/scissor play so it’s more contained than a room just for 3 plus might be. Something like play doh is tricky as mine used it in the baby room so I’d imagine it would be used quite freely by most children. I’ve seen it out in my child’s room for free play so it is one of the activities that has less supervision and might just be sitting there. They might really be trying but the odds are against them without 1:1 support in a busy environment.

This sounds so difficult for you. Are you using nursery as part of the 15/30 hours pre-school scheme or for actual childcare? If it’s the former then I think you need to meet with the manager and their key worker/s ASAP. They should be as keen as you to avoid near misses turning into anything more serious.

If you are using nursery for childcare then the same applies for a limited amount of hours (I don’t think it would be beneficial to remove them from preschool completely) but look for a childminder who understands the situation and can provide at least 1:2 care and a safer environment tailored to their needs.

I’m not trying to get them to fix it - I’m trying to get them to acknowledge that their needs can’t be met in a mainstream setting, at least without significant extra funding for closer supervision. The route we are currently going down, in terms of the EHCP is the only way we can access additional support. I feel caught between a rock and a hard place.

And to be fair, they’ve been reassuring me for the last 10 months that they can keep them safe and meet their needs otherwise I wouldn’t be sending them every week.

Yes. They’re getting 15 funded hours (30 from January) because they receive DLA.

Hmm that's a tough one OP. I imagine it must be making you quite anxious if you're worrying about it all the time. It must be scary for you.

I worked in a nursery a few years ago and we did have a couple of children with additional needs. Unfortunately we never received funding so they weren't able to have 1-1 care.

It is extremely difficult in a nursery setting due to the ratios and without the funding I don't see how it would work. I'm not sure how well a complaint would go down either as it's not really the staffs fault. It sounds like their already doing the best they can.

This is one of the reasons I stopped working in a nursery, it really use to irk me that parents expected 1-1 care when we had other children to look after. I appreciate your situation is completely different though.

Whilst your children's needs are important, they will have other children to care for too so they can't really be following your child around all day. Could you afford a nanny?

I honestly haven’t expected anything or been pushy at all - I’m the opposite way, if anything. I understand how difficult it is. Just a few weeks ago I went in to express concerns about them moving DT2 from the 0-2 room to the 2-3 room and they were reassuring me they felt 100% confident about it, about keeping him safe etc.

Just called to try and speak to them first and the managers weren’t there but spoke to DT2’s old keyworker from the baby room saying they have few kids in tomorrow (due to half term) so she will be with him all day which has made me feel better about tomorrow at least.

In all honesty I wonder if they’ve been a bit too reassuring. Unless they are massively over ratio, I’m not sure how they could ever commit to such a close level of supervision for two children with additional needs. Have they done a risk assessment you can look at? It sounds like it would actually be better for you if they did say it has been a struggle re the assessments.

I wonder if they’d fare better in a dedicated pre-school with wrap around childcare if you can find it.

I don’t know the details but my friends son attends a preschool and was assessed last term for additional support which should hopefully follow him into school when he hits five (or at least provide a foundation for accessing further support).

Other than that I don’t see you have many options really. You know how they operate and can only raise your concerns (which I don’t think you need to change your wording on tbh, you seem articulate enough it’s more about knowing what they are providing vs what you need from them). Ultimately it’s going to rely on your trust in their reassurances or looking for another setting.

It's hard- there isn't the current funding to 1-1 both of your children- so other children are going unsupervised which as a parent would give me concern, and as their parent I can understand why you're concerned for their safety. They don't have the resources to deal with the needs your children have, clearly. However it's less a complaining situation and more you need to find a solution. Can you have a nanny or child minder instead? They are not set up from a safety perspective for your children- can you move them to a safer environment and keep them home whilst funding is organised with in home care instead?

Its very hard because whilst they are putting up additional supervision it sounds like they do not have 1:1 and the nursery is set up for "normal" kids. My dd attended a specialist centre so there was 1:3 at age 3 and the classrooms were devoid of dodgy items (eg play doh was edible).

Your local lea is key in getting an appropriate setting, it doesn't sound like this is suitable because they need to provide a setting for the other kids too, developing fine motor etc.

This is it - I don’t need reassurances. If they can’t keep them safe without it impacting on other kids they need to say that to me, and they definitely need to say it to the LA (whether they have or not, I don’t know).

Just had the draft EHCP for one of them, it does say he needs constant supervision due to mouthing.

There is one local specialist early years setting which would be perfect but we can only access it through an EHCP, and they’re currently full. I have no idea if the LA will even agree to fund places when available either.

I’m stressed out of my mind and to add insult to injury, it says in DT2’s draft EHCP that his opthalmologist suspects a visual impairment that’s a) very debilitating and b) no one has ever mentioned to me ever. I’m in shock, I’m pissed off, I’m just a mess.

We are doing everything we can - the only way to get additional funding at their age is to get an EHCP, which takes 20 weeks from when it’s initiated, which I ended up doing myself as it wasn’t started as promised.

I’m about to have a breakdown I think.

No, we can’t afford a nanny etc. If we have to take them out completely we can make it work, but I don’t want to set them back either - being there is helping them make some progress. I can’t take them out by myself, it’s not safe so they need something that isn’t just me and our house (and I need it too because I’m barely getting any sleep and struggling to function at all)

You need to push for the EHCP. It is not the nursery's fault that your children need a 1 to 1, they may be doing everything they can but simply do not have the staff ratios. If they were refusing to take your kids because they acknowledged the difficulty of keeping them safe, every one would be furious and accuse them of not being inclusive. They can't get it right. Nurseries are private, and don't have unlimited funds.

I really feel for you, this sounds like an incredibly difficult situation for you and for the nursery. Unfortunately they are clearly struggling to meet the needs of both children, I’m a nursery teacher and these children both sound like they need full time 1-1 which would mean two additional members of staff. I think with the best will in the world there’s no way they can ensure their safety without members of staff specifically allocated to them. Even applying for an EHCP will not provide the amount of funding they will need to fill staffing requirements so you might find yourself having an uphill battle with them. I know this would be unorthodox but could you suggest to them that you only bring one twin at a time? I know this is not ideal in terms of setting a routine for children with ASD but it’s likely they would be much better at meeting the needs of one at a time rather than both at once. Each twin could do two mornings a week and have a long weekend with you? Alongside this I would insist upon an open honest discussion with the nursery about exactly what support they are giving your children and how they plan to make this work from now on. Hope this is helpful.

You need to push for the EHCP.
What you mean apart from applying for them, chasing up missing reports, chasing up the council who sent the nursery nothing, chasing up the nursery to send in the paperwork, etc? Pushing for an EHCP is exactly what I’m doing.

It is not the nursery's fault that your children need a 1 to 1
Where did I ever say it was?

they may be doing everything they can but simply do not have the staff ratios. If they were refusing to take your kids because they acknowledged the difficulty of keeping them safe, every one would be furious and accuse them of not being inclusive. They can't get it right. Nurseries are private, and don't have unlimited funds.

Sorry but this is utter horse shit. Any setting can refuse to take a child if they can’t meet their needs. Instead I’ve been told the opposite for 10 months. I wouldn’t be accusing them of anything if they said to me “it’s not safe for your children to be here” - do you honestly think I’d be insisting they take them anyway?

Please also be aware that an EHCP does not guarantee access to specialist provision. It opens the door for you but many specialist providers are turning children down who are completely unable to access mainstream education. I hope this route is an option for you but enabling the kids to access mainstream would be my main priority for the foreseeable future.