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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To make a complaint to nursery? How to word it?

44 replies

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 13:52

Not even sure complaint is the right word but I feel I need to put this in writing.

We have three year old twins who attend nursery 3 mornings a week. They are both autistic, DT2 also has other disabilities. They both demonstrate lack of danger awareness and sensory seeking behaviours such as mouthing and eating non edible things.

The nursery are well aware of this and have been since they started in January. They’ve told us they closely supervise them to prevent them from choking. On multiple occasions we’ve picked them up and been told they’ve eaten a bit of play doh, which has given them awful nappies for days. The other day I picked them up and found DT2 had two conkers in his mouth. A member of staff said she’d been following him round taking them out.

I should have made the managers aware when those incidents happened and I didn’t. I know how hard it is and I know accidents happen.

But today DH picked them up and one was playing with a box of small beads unsupervised. The other was asleep. When he got them out to the car he realised that the one who was asleep had dark marks all round his mouth and dark stained teeth. He’s obviously eaten play doh again - staff said nothing so clearly they didn’t notice so who knows how much.

We have a draft EHCP meeting next week. I’m increasingly worried about sending them to nursery, what if something happens to them? Similarly I’m worried about causing conflict and pissing off the staff who for now at least are taking care of my children. On the other hand I’m angry, and then again I know they don’t yet receive funding for 1:1 support...

How do I broach this? AIBU to put this in an email today? I think they want the boys to get specialist placements but I’m not sure that’s going to happen to be honest.

OP posts:

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 17:16

I am aware of that, believe me - hence the horrible anxiety around this process. But there is a local specialist early years setting for children with ASD, and it’s ideally where they need to be and that’s what I’m going to aim for. I’m not sure what I can do to enable them to stay in mainstream education given that they’re completely non verbal, don’t understand a single word, etc. We are doing all we can for them but I can’t make them behave safely (fortunately they are the most placid toddlers I’ve ever seen so the risk is only to them and not other children).

OP posts:

MaryH90 · 31/10/2019 17:32

You’re absolutely right, you have no control over how they behave at nursery it’s completely under their remit to manage their behaviour. I think sitting down with the nursery staff and hashing out some kind of flexible approach to their attendance at nursery

MaryH90 · 31/10/2019 17:32

Will be a good next step

Bobbybobbins · 31/10/2019 17:48

@StinkGhoul

There is some info on this page

www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-business-sustainability-guides-for-providers/extra-sources-of-income-for-early-years-providers

About how nurseries can apply for additional funding for children with SEN and/or DLA - an EHCP is not necessarily needed. We have had funding for both of ours ages 2-4 before we got EHCP from our LEA.

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 17:50

I did ask them about that just a few weeks ago (again) and they said there is no additional funding before they turn 3 + a term. I suspect they may be wrong about that, going to investigate. Thank you

And I apologise for being snippy in previous replies, I’m a wreck.

OP posts:

NitNat78 · 31/10/2019 18:08

My DD doesn't have any special requirements but if I picked her up and she had been eating play doh, beads,whatever I would be furious! I really feel for you, it's very hard leaving children and the added anxiety must be dreadful for you. I can't really offer any help but I would definitely send them an email and I would ask to speak to the nursery manager in person. Would it be an option to move them to a different nursery? Good luck xx

Nodancingshoes · 31/10/2019 18:21

This is very difficult. Of course your children should be safe but ratios for 3 year olds are 1:8. Without funding it would be impossible for most nurseries to provide a smaller ratio. The beads shouldn't of been out unsupervised, what play dough do they use? Ours is edible and shouldn't hurt anyone unless consumed in large quantities and it does sound like the staff member was trying to control the conker situation whilst still caring for 7 other children. I think they are trying to reassure you and to offer safe, supervised care for your children, but failing as it is just to difficult. I think you need to arrange a meeting with the manager and ask them honestly what they can and can't offer. You can then make a decision on whether to keep them there or not. Good luck - I know how hard it is to fight for help for your children

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 18:30

I believe they make their own and I’m sure it’s not toxic - more concerned about the choking risk, and the demonstration of the fact that he can eat enough to stain his teeth and face without them noticing at the time or subsequently (I assume as they hadn’t wiped his face or mentioned it to DH). I have just accepted it in the past when they’ve said “he might have managed to eat a bit of play doh” because these things happen - it’s the not noticing that’s worried me. They’d put him down for a nap before we picked him up so I’m surprised they didn’t spot it (at first I was worried he was very ill because his lips had a blue tinge - he also has hypoglycaemia thought fortunately rarely these days, so then I’m worrying, if he did show physical signs of a hypo would they spot it? Sorry, my mind is running away with itself)

I just want the best for them. I don’t even know what’s what any more. I’m completely worn down. Need to get my shit together for the inevitable fight with the council.

OP posts:

Sirzy · 31/10/2019 18:36

Make sure you ehc is specific. So no “needs constant supervision” but “x requires 1-1 supervision at all times in the setting. This will be 30 hours a week from January 2020” type thing

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 18:40

Yeah, the one draft I’ve had is nothing like that at all. Neither were the Ed Psych reports. The only specifics were 20 mins of SALT work 1:1 per day, and 30 mins on outdoor play equipment per day. The rest is all “needs constant supervision”, “needs lots of 1:1 support”. I think we are screwed to be honest. Just wading through all the IPSEA stuff on draft EHCPs now.

I’m still in shock about the suggestions of a completely new diagnosis I’ve never even heard of for DT2 - I only saw the guy a couple of weeks ago, I know he’d sent the report by then. Why didn’t he say anything? He just said he was deliberately “on the fence” since we can’t know for sure.

OP posts:

june2007 · 31/10/2019 18:54

I would ask (demand) a meeting with the senco, identify your concearns, and work out a plan of action. You should be seeing the area senco as well. Also is there a local Mencap group or Autism association group near you who can help with advice, advocacy, groups to go to? Where I work we have a few children with additional needs with 1-1 or higher level ratios, it is very common. (I have been employed a a 1-1 my self on a few occasions.)

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 19:02

The area SENCO has been in to see them multiple times. I never know when it’s going to be, have never met her and never saw any reports until I asked the nursery to see them recently (didn’t know they did them).

They so desperately need more early intervention, they’ve shown they can make progress when they get it, but I can’t even give them decent 1:1 time most of the time at home given there are two of them and their needs are so high. Portage is about to end for one and has already ended for the other. They really need more support. They’re such lovely boys and I think there’s a tendency to just let them get on with it much of the time because they don’t initiate interaction. I know they do have periods of 1:1 time with their key worker, but according to literature up in the nursery, all kids get this.

OP posts:

cabbageking · 31/10/2019 19:16

Conkers can cause upset stomachs if eaten and an activity with them should have been properly supervised due to the risk. I would mention the play doh incidents because it has been repeated. Perhaps you need to ask if they have considered your childrens needs in their risk assessments.
I would send an email asking how supervision and risk is managed at the start of each week and how any risk is communicated to other staff? It may be one staff member is not so vigilant or it could be a lack of planning?

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 31/10/2019 19:19

The conkers are just in the garden having fallen from a tree rather than part of an activity. They’re huge too so if he did manage to swallow one he’d choke before being poisoned.

I obviously need a big discussion with them, again.

OP posts:

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 01/11/2019 09:07

I emailed them in the end, explaining I understand how challenging the situation is and I think we need to document these issues should we need it in the future. Had a response and they agree and have spoken to staff (which I feel awful about - it’s not their fault, they don’t have the ratios).

Going in to see one of the managers / SENCO this afternoon. Need to talk to them about this meeting next week as well. Need to try and calm down as going to visit my wonderful sister for her birthday this weekend and don’t want to be a panicky, snivelling mess around her.

OP posts:

Thehop · 01/11/2019 09:14

@stinkghoul

Sorry but this is utter horse shit. Any setting can refuse to take a child if they can’t meet their needs

This is simply not the case for us. We’re a small pro at nursery and it’s massively difficult to decline a place, as we have to be inclusive and make the changes needed to meet the needs of the child.

We have 2 children that need 1:1 at the moment and we lose a significant amount of money providing it, which is crippling us. If we get any more children who need 1:1 we may have to close, it really is that detrimental.

I’m really sorry you’re having such a shit time. It does sound like you’re doing an amazing job on zero battery. I hope you get somewhere with the specialist placement as soon as possible.

Thehop · 01/11/2019 09:17

Sorry small private apologies for the typo

Original poster

StinkGhoul · 01/11/2019 09:29

That’s really appalling thehop - the lack of support for children with SEN in nursery (especially below the age of 3) is shocking. I’m really sorry you’re having to deal with the impact of this too.

I remember when I was looking at nurseries worrying that nowhere would agree to take them and being told that a setting would have to prove they couldn’t provide the care needed to refuse - if nurseries are in that situation, the LAs need to support them. The whole thing is a shit show really. And I’m not expecting an easy road to get them what they need!

OP posts:

Thehop · 01/11/2019 10:05

It IS a shot show, and children really are suffering. We need some huge changes.

Masses of good luck to you and your boys x

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