To change careers at nearly 40 and study law?

[Hubbel]

Ok, here goes.

BA and MA degrees from Oxbridge. Successful career in academia involving frequent international travel. Great salary, mostly loved my job.

Had children and took career break for five years. Worked on something unrelated to academia with little money but fulfilling/successful.

Stressful period and divorced ExH. Back to academia but had a very hard time finding a similar position to what I held previously. Accepted job with smaller salary and fewer responsibilities than I had 10 years ago! I feel so over qualified and under appreciated in job to the point where I think about resigning every day!

Had a couple of life changing events happen this year and just think is this it? Apart from DC I am not fulfilled in life. I have a brain but working in a job where I feel over qualified is dire… I feel my experience is wasted in this position. I have applied to many other positions but academia is not the same as it was. Jobs are very competitive and salaries have barely risen. I have had numerous interviews for better jobs with almost the same response, someone else with more experience beat me to it. On top of that I’ve lost my enthusiasm for academia which probably shows in interviews.

I am looking for something new. I want a challenge and feel I have a lot of energy and drive which is wasted where I am. I know I’ll have to retrain with years of study but don’t want to look back in another 10 years thinking I could have done/been so much more.

The pros are I have always been interested in law and have worked on law related projects. I love networking, am a deep analytical thinker and have all the experience of research, writing and managing projects etc. I want to use my brain, learn new things and feel appreciated! I want to feel I’m able to move up a company with career progression with the potential of earning more.

The cons are I currently work part-time and juggle two children and I am tired! So tired every day. But I think this is partly because my job is literally sucking the life of out of me. I’m a single parent living within commuting distance of London. It would be great to work in London but how could I possibly do the commute with school/being a single parent etc. I have a lot of life experience but I’m nearly 40, too old? Would pursuing a career in law mean I barely see my kids?

What do you think mumnetters? Should I go for it or am I mad to consider?

I think private practice would be impossible as a single parent op. Sorry but the hours are just too long and unpredictable

I'm currently 6 weeks into a law degree in mid 40s, having been an accountant up to now.
It's enjoyable but so far you are not exactly getting thought provoking legal discussion in tutorials.. maybe in a year or so.
Getting a law contract is mega competitive and age will be against you I'd expect. I can't see me getting one easily just due to the nature of doing very junior work for a few years when I have been very senior up to now. But studying law is enjoyable as it's own goal, which is why I am doing it.

I think before you commit, check out government/civil service roles/schemes as they tend to be a lot better on work life balance and flexibility. I career changed into teaching at your age and have made it a success, but while I am happy and decently paid (for a teacher), I have a lot less flexibility in term term than other parents I meet through DD's school. The civil service accountants seem to have a great deal. They are always at the nativities etc! They freely admit their jobs are boring though, whereas I find mine pretty interesting and am using my degrees.

My 23 year old daughter started her training contract 8 weeks ago for an international firm based in the city. She has not yet made it home before 8pm (thats a good day). Last week she was working until 2am every day as a deadline was approaching. Her phone is expected to be on 24/7 and she is expected to respond to emails even if it is 10pm on a Sunday evening.

While on a vac scheme at another company she was told of a recent situation where an associate was devastated because his wife had left him due to the fact he was never home. His boss encouraged him to view this as a positive thing as it meant he could now really focus on his work and put more hours in without any distractions

I retrained into law at a younger age than you are contemplating. I studied the GDL part time and the LPC full time, got a training contract straight away and I'm now 2 years qualified, so it's taken me 7 years so far to get here. I work in an advisory area aligned to corporate.

I'd say I still feel overqualified and am not using my degrees (Oxbridge BA, like you) or even most of the interesting stuff I learned on my GDL. At trainee and junior level a lot of the work is admin and process-driven. You wouldn't be helping clients with their big commercial or legal decisions, or providing advice that you researched and wrote yourself, until you had been doing law a really long time.

I have to say though I don't recognise the descriptions of corporate law culture that PP have given. Times have changed I think, and my firm has a genuinely progressive culture and both my supervising partners are women with families.

I was providing advice I'd researched and written myself as a trainee and was managing (small) transactions. That is unusual though (small office of a major firm). As I said it really depends on firm and team and that's hard/impossible to know in advance.

Sunbursts's daughter's experience sounds par for the course though. The issue is with kids if you work until 2, you still have to get up for the school run and you're competing with others who can then roll our of bed at 8 and get to the office for 10.

The friend's boss is an arse though. My work would feel the need to pretend they cared even if they didn't really.

I have recently qualified into law as a second career (late thirties) and work in a corporate city firm. I don’t recognise many of the PPs’ descriptions above, and am really glad I made the move.

I do good, interesting work for high profile clients, get paid well, and rarely work beyond 8pm. My firm also has a good working from home policy, which increases flexibility.

The difficulty is being a trainee, where you have almost no control over your time/workload. Still, as a trainee (different firm to where I am now) I was able to work from home depending on which seat I was in. I think the key is picking a firm which has the right balance for your life.

Thanks so hours really depend on firm and what area you go into to.

Yes but they also come down to the individuals you're working for, the number of trainees / paralegals in the team. There's no rule of thumb unfortunately. Have a look at a website called Roll On Friday, under the Inside info. You'll see various quotes from trainees etc.

Thanks @Africa2go I'll look at it.

Looks like London is out the question, long term at least. Anyone else who trained later in life with a local firm instead?

I’ve just qualified I’m 38. I trained in a local high street firm, it was intense as I had responsibilities beyond my stage in the career but the hours weren’t too bad - it was meant to be 9-5 but was 8:30-6. I’m now working 3 days a week in another high street firm, I work ten hour days to get the work done but prefer that.
Both firms are flexible and I could work from home etc

Thanks @Lellikelly26 that's really interesting to hear. Can you tell me your route into law and if you managed to get sponsorship etc?

Not quite the same OP, but I qualified as a teacher in my early 40s so I completely changed my career. I haven't regretted it at all.

I'm glad I went for it. It was incredibly hard work as I didn't even have a degree.

I know it's different from your career, but from the point of view of having possibly 30+years left to work I wanted to do something more fulfilling.

I'm doing a 2nd degree at 40, now half way through a part time degree and working as a trainee. It's hard work but like you I thought I've at least another 30 yrs of work. My pay at the moment isn't great, but hopefully when I graduate I'll be paid a lot more. Good luck.

Ive been qualified 27 years today - hurray ! Lol
I retired 5 years ago tho. I hated it in the end. I was lucky to have a pension that pays me well. I helped a couple of family members out recently. Boy has it become far more unprofessional out there ! I was shocked at some firms behaviour. I realised again why I hated being in law.

@Densol999 Oh no! Why did you hate being in law?

Sounds good @Snooper22 What are you retraining in?

That's great @Caaarrrl How are you finding life in teaching?

I've got a close friend who went back to University and studied law in her early 40s and then did the Bar exams after that. But she never progressed beyond that. Law people, forgive me if I don't get the technical terms right - but I believe it was a pupillage she needed next and she was unable to get one. The numbers applying for each place seem to be astronomical, and whilst she was never told that her age was a factor of course, it does seem likely that it had an impact. From the companies' point of view, I can see why it might be more attractive to take on a younger person who is going to have a longer career and represent better "value" to them. Admittedly she has limited geographical flexibility because of her husband's job so that limited the options, but despite having a law degree and then being called to the Bar, the only work she was offered was some type of assistant in a solicitor's office. Not that I am saying that is a bad job, but after all the effort and expense of getting those qualifications it was rather disappointing for her. Several people said that she was disadvantaged by not having any family members or other contacts in the profession too. I don't know whether that is true or not, but that is what some of her more successful friends said anyway. I don't think very many of her friends from the course have gone on to have law careers actually. I am sure some have achieved everything they hoped for, but most seem to be working in unrelated fields. They are at least working though - it isn't all doom and gloom.
It is good to hear that others on the thread have more positive stories and i am not trying to put you off trying, but I know it has all been hugely disappointing for my friend.

I’m a lawyer, 38, 2 pre school aged kids, work in-house.

I like my job and law has opened some great doors for me career-wise but I wouldn’t retrain at your stage in life @Hubbel

The day to day practice of law is not as intellectually stimulating as people envisage. About half my job is proofing, copy-editing, sense-checking, bringing a commercial lens to things- sometimes mundane, sometimes interesting but you don’t need to be a lawyer to do it.

I am reasonably well-paid and have a certain amount of flexibility (I work 4 days) but that is a result of doing the early years in my 20s of staying late and not earning great money. Even so I’m usually at my desk 9-6. DH is a lawyer too. We have a nanny to help us juggle it.

Most grad schemes are based on hiring bright young things fresh out of uni. Mature students are rare. My gut feeling is that senior lawyers would feel awkward about managing someone older/more senior/high qualified in a separate area, especially when they are giving them dogsbody work for the first few years.

Sorry to be a dampener but if you have an Oxbridge MA I’d look to see how you can pivot your career using that.

When DH worked at a big City firm in London it was not unusual for him to work until 10pm, to occasionally get called back from holidays (over Christmas) or in on a Sunday, or to pull a 36 hour shift. It wasn’t the norm but it wasn’t unusual. He was an intermediate level solicitor then (so 5-7pqe - not a trainee). This was 10 years ago but I doubt it’s changed.

I am a City lawyer and I wouldn't recommend it as a career.

My core hours are 9.30 - 7, but I usually work more than that. I am a litigator, which is an area where things get thrown at you without warning very often, and you simply cannot just leave at 5 if something urgent needs to be done.

The trainee years are very inflexible - you have to do as you're told, when you're told. A lot of work that trainees are asked to do is incredibly repetitive and mind-numbing but needs to be done perfectly. E.g. when you are in the middle of disclosure, you're just sitting in front of a computer 10 hours a day marking documents "relevant"/"not-relevant" etc. You will need to be OK with being told what to do by people half your age who do not care one bit about your personal obligations.

The culture really depends on the firm and who you end up working with, so it's pure chance, but there are still some very unpleasant people working in law firms - bullies, sexual harassers, misogynists etc. Some people might say "it's not like that anymore" but it absolutely can be - personal experience talking here. Even at the less toxic end, my experience is that partners generally behave like they own the associates. The politics can be unbelievable.

What might be good for you thought is an in-house training contract. I know some of the banks and big energy companies do them. There is generally less macho bullshit in house and people don't mind if you leave at 5.30. I think there is probably also less repetitive crap because they farm that stuff out to law firms.

My husband works for one of the elite NYC firms. He’s been a partner for more than a decade, and only in the last few years has he enjoyed a little more flexibility with his schedule, but even now he’s at the beck and call of demanding clients, and this weekend is jammed with work.

It isn’t routinely like that, of course, but his early years were dominated by all-nighters, cancelled vacations, and weekend plans abandoned. So I think you’re wise to consider a regional firm, or a London firm with a regional office, because if London is anything like NYC, the hours can be brutal.

I’m at the Bar. Mauv have good advice re this above. Depending on Chambers the bar can give you the flexibility you need with children. Hyper competitive to get pupillage. Many older entrants bring specialism (eg medical/commercial) which can fast track them into related areas. Gdl if done 20-21, bar course (which is changing next year) 21-22, Pupillage 22-23. Pupillage applications open Dec-close early Feb for start the following sept/October.
It is doable but hugely expensive to get there and highly competitive.
I too couldn’t imagine working for a city firm or as a solicitor for many of the reasons above.
My job isn’t hugely intellectually challenging but interesting, rewarding and full-on. Criminal Bar.
Good luck

I found it incredibly stressful and got burn out at 48. I doubt I'll be able to work again, but because it is a public org, they pay me for the rest of my life for what they did to me. I cant say anymore as to details