To think that if you have the funds to pay for your care home needs then you absoloutley should?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Interesting chat with a friend the other day about the extortionate costs of care homes and how if you live in social housing/rental and are on benefits then the government will pay for your care yet if you have "worked hard all your life and want to leave something for your kids" you are made to sell your home / use savings to pay for your care.

Friend is of the opinion that everyone who requires a care home should have it paid for by the government. So essentially a "hand out" yet also is of the opinion that those on benefits are getting "hand outs" and looks on them with scorn.

My personal opinion is that if you have the means to fund your own care home needs then yes; you absoloutley should pay for some or all of that. Why should the government fork out millions for every care home resident in the country so that a vast amount of them can then hand their properties and extensive savings down to their children?

It's simply not viable to fund 100% of care home needs across the country and if you are the kind of person who gets smug about "paying my way all my life" to the tune of living mortgage free in a 300k plus home with vast savings then you should be happy to continue "paying your way" til the end.

I also pointed out to her that as she will be funding her own care she will likely have more say in where she goes.

The end result was we both agreed the best solution was to swerve the care home altogether but I wondered whether I was BU to expect someone who can afford to pay for their care to actually pay for their care?

I'm somewhere in between to be honest, partly because my own DGF's experience was so awful. He's in a care home now, not particularly posh, but it provides the care he needs medically. Essentially he was kicked out of his own home by his DC as they made living with them untenable for him due to the person they married being abusive (I'm purposely keeping gender out of this because the case did hit the news and I know my DGF hates that fact as he is very proud)

After he moved into the care home they did not pay his care home fees despite supposedly covering them. This led to him losing his home as a consequence of their actions, despite the fact it had been made clear he would rather it have been rented out (which it was, and they still didn't pay the fees) plus some other legal stuff I won't go into.

In other circumstances, the house could have been sold to cover the fees after his death and then the rest of the money (if any) would have been split between his DC but in this instance, it wasn't an option because of something they had done. It's not always so clear cut and elder abuse is a very real thing. I would much prefer that care home fees are covered regardless of property ownership, even if it means a tax increase, to ensure they are protected, no matter what happens.

@ChocolateTeapot23's solution is a really good one.

What do you do with those who don't have family or whose family can't/won't look after them?
If they have absolutely nobody then pay for their care on the understanding that they’re estranged from their family and friends therefore will have no visitors. If someone wants to visit then they’re clearly not estranged, so would not be entitled to free care and the family will have to pay, even if that means getting into debt. Not many people will completely abandon a parent just to save money.

I have a house. Every penny paid for it was earned by me - no inheritances/divorces etc.

But - when I need care I will no longer need that house, it SHOULD be sold off to pay for my care. I have no need for it.

I lose nothing by someone else not being so fortunate and having their care paid for. I still have a roof over my head, heating, food etc.

My children are building their own lives and will hopefully not be "looking forward to" an inheritance.

Your family can look after you. Have you visited people in nursing homes and seen how ill they are? We aren't talking about shopping, making meals and helping you to have a wash, we are talking two people needed to hoist you, regular dressing changes, complicated medication regimes, hearing and vision problems all in one person. Also possibly total confusion, aggression, constant shouting. I want a better standard than a nationalised care service same as with NHS, by all means go private if you wish to but the national service should be available to you.

Not many people will completely abandon a parent just to save money.

Well that’s naive.

I’ve done some work within the funeral category. Families refusing to pay is more common than anyone would like to believe.

Like I say, you’re advocating people on the streets.

I think people would be willing to pay a higher rate of income tax if the deal was that they then would not be asset stripped for care fees in the future, as it would be like paying for an insurance policy against future fees (a pp suggested insurance policies as a possible future).

This way if you never need to cash in the insurance you're just grateful you don't need it, but someone else will still benefit from your payments.

"I’d prefer everyone to be billed for their care needs, including those on benefits. If you can’t pay then you can’t have care, your family will have to look after you."

Have you told your children that?

What happens to the people who don’t have children who can do this?

There aren't even that many care homes left anymore. Too expensive. You have to be pretty badly health wise to get into a home. The standard now is care going into your home instead. Great for some, terrible in terms of standards of care and isolation.

You're naive if you think children will look after their parents. Some will, but there is a heck of a lot who don't. One of my DGF's DC said they would bury their parents at the bottom of the garden when they died, everyone thought they were joking. Since my DGM died that sentiment has proven very true, as they have not taken care of my DGF. My own D{ can't care for themselves, let alone anyone else (in a care home themselves) and the rest of the family who live close enough to help simply don't care.

As a care manager I can tell you that the numbers of families that either abandon their relative totally or refuse to allow them their own money to spend on things (if they have power of attorney) or discourage spending, so the money goes to their inheritance is absolutely shocking!

Paintedmaypole has it exactly right about care home privatisation by stealth. There is hardly any local authority run care provision left anymore. And it has led to a huge drop in pay for carers and standards across the board.
I've just heard Corbyn pledging to nationalise Mail, Rail and whatever else he said...he should add care to that list in my opinion.

That poster has no idea of the realities and cost of caring.

I completely believe you @historysock. In my parents’ care home very few residents had visitors. I went in almost every day and the envy from some of those poor people was awful.

I don’t think it’s fair that some can fritter their money all their life and get it paid whilst those who are careful don’t.

I think we should all have to pay more towards care and have it taken from wages like tax.

I might be being dreadful naive here but would some kind of compulsory lifelong insurance work?

If everyone were to pay a small amount each month (deducted pre tax), say £15-20 and this solely funded care of the elderly and then you are covered should you need to access a care home in old age. Or it could be tiered according to how much you earn.

I know a lot of people ask why high earners should pay more but my dad has been a higher earner most of his life and his view is that it comes with responsibility. He recognises that a society filled with earners at all levels has enabled him to make a lot of money and have a nice life and would be happy to pay a bit extra so that everyone can have the same level of basic care.

I suffer from several health conditions that predict I am more likely than most to be diagnosed with dementia in the future. I wish the laws surrounding ending your life voluntarily would hurry up & change. If they did I would be first in the queue as soon as I got the first hint that it was starting. Spend my final years in a care home, no thanks.

Some families cant afford to pay. And the erosion of workers rights hasnt helped.

A lot of employers still think that family friendly only means children.

I know someone who has moved in with their parent, allegedly to look after them but i see the issue of care funding was raised before this decision was made

and this attitude will be rife

I might be being dreadful naive here but would some kind of compulsory lifelong insurance work?

^This. Can easily be implemented too

Surely the person who needs the care, rather than sign over their money to their offspring, should be able to live in comfort in a care home/home of their choice

I think the system is fair as it is. I’ve worked in care for over 15 years and also do some caring for my mother who has dementia. She will need a care home in a couple of years and that will be paid for by her home being sold.

unless you decide to keep that money for yourself @charm8ed

My parents are in their 50s. They have legally signed the deeds of their mortgage free house over to me and my brother as well as their savings. This is on the verbal understanding that we don't use any of the savings until they have died.
If they need care in their 70s/80s the government cannot force the sale of the house as it belongs to me and my brother as does all of their savings.
Lots of people would say this is selfish but so be it.