To think that if you have the funds to pay for your care home needs then you absoloutley should?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Interesting chat with a friend the other day about the extortionate costs of care homes and how if you live in social housing/rental and are on benefits then the government will pay for your care yet if you have "worked hard all your life and want to leave something for your kids" you are made to sell your home / use savings to pay for your care.

Friend is of the opinion that everyone who requires a care home should have it paid for by the government. So essentially a "hand out" yet also is of the opinion that those on benefits are getting "hand outs" and looks on them with scorn.

My personal opinion is that if you have the means to fund your own care home needs then yes; you absoloutley should pay for some or all of that. Why should the government fork out millions for every care home resident in the country so that a vast amount of them can then hand their properties and extensive savings down to their children?

It's simply not viable to fund 100% of care home needs across the country and if you are the kind of person who gets smug about "paying my way all my life" to the tune of living mortgage free in a 300k plus home with vast savings then you should be happy to continue "paying your way" til the end.

I also pointed out to her that as she will be funding her own care she will likely have more say in where she goes.

The end result was we both agreed the best solution was to swerve the care home altogether but I wondered whether I was BU to expect someone who can afford to pay for their care to actually pay for their care?

No, they’re not. Continuing Care is the only funding available and it’s as hard to get hold of as rocking horse shit.

My mil got C H C ; she was only given a few months to live but only managed a week!
They know what they are doing with that one!

MarshaBradyo

Yes and no - it depends how ill you are as to wether the environment matters.

Yes true Bargebill

Makes me smile when some people suggest that adult children should care for their parents if they are poorly , but if your a stay at home mum for your own kids you tend to be flamed for not contributing and being irresponsible etc!

Continuing Care is the only funding available and it’s as hard to get hold of as rocking horse shit.
True, although my dad was awarded it for the last couple of months of his life. We were expecting it to be capped, but they actually paid out for his entire care home fees.

For starters, yes sign over the house in your 50s and gift the money, your children don't need to be responsible because you can and control it. If you don't forward plan that's your own fault. Most of the residents in my care home will be in care from 80 to 90 onwards, they have already distributed their funds at that point or chose to keep them. It's not naieve its reality.

Aside from the fact that many people haven't paid off their mortgages until they're well into their 50s or older, so couldn't gift what isn't fully theirs, it's dreadfully inefficient to have to pay all of that rent to your own children to continue living in your own home - and for them to then have to pay 20% (is it still that rate or has it gone up now?) of it straight to the taxman. This might push them into a higher tax band and stop them from qualifying from certain benefits or allowances, because their income and assets are now too high.

How can you know for a fact that the house you live in in your 50s is going to definitely be your 'forever home'? Even if you did decide that you'd like to move, instead of it being a relatively straightforward process for you as an outright homeowner or one with 50%+ equity in a home, considering that you're NOT a homeowner and your monthly outgoings also include a hefty rent liability, good luck trying to get a mortgage with any lender in your 60s.

Of course, this also assumes that your children are equally on board with what you want and don't become selfish or desperate - or marry and/or divorce somebody who is. Imagine you 'gift' your DS/DD your house and pay a monthly rent to them in exchange for still living there. Their long-term marriage hits a sticky patch and ends in divorce. A judge orders them to give half of their rental property (not 'Mum's house') to their ex-spouse in the divorce settlement. They can't afford to buy them out, so the property has to be sold, with their tenant (not 'Mum') given notice to leave within 3-6 months. As well as their rental property (i.e. what used to be your own house), the divorce means that they have to sell their former marital home and can each only afford to buy a new home from the proceeds because they each have half of the proceeds from the sale of their rental property. Alternatively, maybe they could strike a deal whereby one keeps the old family home and the other either uses the proceeds from their rented house to buy a new one or simply moves into it.

Of course, it's still really your house, though. Just not in the eyes of the law, your DD/DS, their ex-spouse and the taxman. And it's now either occupied by your DS/DD or has otherwise already been sold with none of the proceeds coming to you....

Sausage roll, well put! I guess that the government realise that a lot of this gifting is to avoid things so it's made as hard as possible. Plus some children may also throw mum and dad under the bus and make them quit ( it there was a big falling out) once it's signed over!
I read too many threads where the children don't get on with the parents or in laws fall out etc etc. Knowing they have control of your property could be a minefield and not many people marry for life anymore either!
I suppose it works if you have multiple properties.
Could something be written in law to stop the parents ending up on the streets?
No idea how any of this works really but it could go wrong so easily as you point out.

Yes but when people have children like that in my care home they chose to keep the money and put it all on care. Because a £400k home doesn't go far these days. That will be eaten up within less than 8 years of an average care home in Wales. Even if you end up getting nursing funding it's only backdated to when your condition became beyond general care.

As far as children divorcing etc. These are all things you weigh up. If you are trying to avoid using your money for care home fees I'm guessing you are willing to take the risk.

There is higher level non-means tested attendance allowance, which goes towards the cost of a nursing home. I know it’s not much (just under £400pm) but it’s worth flagging up so that everyone is claiming what is available.
www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Attendance-Allowance/How-much-Attendance-Allowance-will-I-get
The original idea behind this payment is that it ‘represents’ the NHS element of care that is not being provided in a hospital setting.

It is not the same as ‘continuing care’ which covers 100% of the cost and which, nowadays, is only available to terminally ill patients who only have a few months left to live. It is a lottery. My mum’s nursing home applied for her to be assessed for continuing care - wales - 2015 - she had vascular dementia and (probably) ovarian cancer.

Btw I found the Altzheimers Society talk boards very useful when I was trying to understand about funding. They have active ‘moderators’ who provide advice and support.

Meant to say, my mum was on continuing care for 9 months until she died. The norm is more like 3-6 months - it is supposed to be reviewed periodically but I suspect my mum went under the radar as they were so busy and understaffed.

Figmentofmyimagination - AA (at either rate) ends when the person has been in a care home (nursing or residential) for 4 weeks. My OH is in a nursing home and his AA has just been suspended because he has been there over 4 weeks.

There is a different health authority payment of around £163 per week that pays for the nursing element of care in a NH - this is aside from continuing health care funding.

Rocking horse shit indeed!

I have yet another meeting with SSD and CHC funding bods tomorrow and I am dreading it. We will all sit round my poor OH and bang on about all the things he cannot do for about 2 hours, and I will have to pick up the pieces with him afterwards - who will pick up the pieces with me I wonder?

Attendance allowance is still paid if the person is self funding - I applied for and got AA in place for my MIL who is self funding her residential care

We never had anyone from CCG out to assess my dad for CHC funding. The Home helped us fill in the (fast-track) form regarding his needs, a nurse from the GP surgery added her bits and the next thing we knew, it had been granted.
I was staggered, to be honest.

You were incredibly lucky @CallmeAngelina, we were told my mum wouldn’t get it because she wasn’t aggressive or violent!

CHC is a pile of shit indeed - we are desperately trying to get this for my mother but every time we produce the extra evidence they ask for they ask for something else. I don’t think we’ll get it but they have cocked up the procedure so many times we’re going to keep trying....

C HC is really unfair. They would never admit it but I feel my mil only qualified as they knew she wouldn't live for long and they were correct!

mishappening AA stops if you go into an NHS hospital for more than 4 weeks. But you should get AA in a private nursing home. (My experience is in wales though). The logic is that if you are in an NHS hospital, you don’t need AA because your nursing care is provided free on the NHS, whereas in a private nursing home or in your own home, you are bearing some of the costs of the nursing care you would get on the NHS if you were in a hospital, so the higher level AA is supposed to compensate you for this.

mishappening should also have said that I really feel for you. I’m so sorry - it is my worst nightmare for my partner to need nursing care.

Alsohuman, My dad didn't have Alzheimer's, but advanced cancer. He was discharged from hospital in a pitiful state, and I think the team there were thrilled to discover he was already in a Care Home and self-funding; otherwise he would have had to remain in hospital for good, I suspect. But no one even discussed his release with us (LPoAs), let alone inform us that CHC funding even existed. It was by pure chance I found out about it and we investigated applying for it. Everyone told us it was well-nigh impossible to qualify for it, but he managed it.

I’m glad he got it, if ever anyone should it’s him. It really is a lottery though. I know someone whose husband had Alzheimer’s, they were minted but, because he was a retired GP and they had friends who knew the system inside out, he got it.

Also human, a case of who you know and not what you know there then! Appalling. My dad was turned down as we don't know the right people obviously! Doesn't surprise me though.

Alot of their "hard earned " cash isn't at all hard earned. They've had the massive benefit of property inflation over the last 40 years.

I'm not sure "knowing the system" helps, if what you mean is that there was some kind of deceit/string-pulling going on by fellow GPs. I had some help (by which I mean advice) from a friend who works for the CCG (different authority), but if my dad hadn't qualified under their (stringent) rules, that would have been that.