Should CM be considered as part of income

[SnowJon]

Should Child Maintenance be included when claiming benefits?

Example child maintenance is being paid to the resident carer. Why should that parent then be enabled to claim further benefits like Free school meals etc? Is that not what the cm is for?

The system is screwed in my eyes

Basically the feckless nrps are encouraged to keep breeding and whacking up with partners who have multiple kids. The more kids the new partner has, the less he pays towards his own children.
Totally screwed up system.

I don’t know the back story OP, whether the NRP has had issues extracting CM from your partner in the past, and it’s damaged their RS, whether she’s been left in debt, whether the NRP earns a lot more on the ‘side’ (common move for self employed) and he’s not declaring his real income, whether she’s just got an obsession with Gucci handbags funded by child maintenance or whether she’s simply refusing to release the children until the money clears in the bank. It’s hard to really grasp your angle, it’s all over the place

2 kids
NRP has a partner and 2 incomes and pays CM for his children

RP meets a partner and now has 2 incomes, carries on receiving CM from ex.

Why is new RP partner more liable than NRP partner for paying for the children? RP’s partner lives with them so takes on the share of more bills, the NRP partner just shares the cost of the CM payment.

You can’t just stop CM when RP meets someone, why is NRP allowed to get married and move on but RP can’t?

Do you really believe that there are millions of fathers out there upset they don’t have 50/50 custody? There isn’t. RP’s aren’t dictating to NRP what the contact arrangement is and The usual court standard is 50/50. The vast majority of NRP never bother taking it to court. It’s actually cheaper to hand over £400 a month (or avoid it entirely) than it is to go to court, cut your work hours down, arrange childcare, take sick days off with the kids, do all the school pick ups and after school clubs.

@SnowJon the only person consistently typing a crock of shite in this thread is you!

Do you think it is fair that now my new dp has moved in that I'm no longer eligible for the student grants I was entitled to as a lone parent? Plus all but a few pounds per month of UC has been taken away. We have had to declare his income as family income and he is expected to support me and my 2 children?
Meanwhile their own father pays the barest minimum he can, I daren't rock the boat as he will just go self employed /cash in hand again. He then stopped paying half of the trips and swimming lessons which he agreed and insisted upon being essential. Then he started taking his new partners child into account when calculating maintenance even though she gets CM from their father, then they chose to have a baby together knowing full well his previous commitments and deducted even more from the maintenance. My new dp and I are now in effect paying for their baby and their lifestyle plus my children at a damn sight more than 16%.
I am left worse off even with my dp paying his share of the bills, we are not considered low income enough to get FSM anymore.
Why shouldn't my ex's partners income be calculated for CM if her children are deductible? And when my new partners income is calculated when it comes to things my children should be eligible for?

The system is leaving single parents and newly partnered parents very vulnerable-Mostly low income women.

@SnowJon you're talking shit. How are RPs abusing the system? By claiming tax credits that they are entitled to and getting maintenance that their children are entitled to? That's not abusing anything.

I can tell you right now that my ex, despite paying me £500 a month, is still better off financially than me. He earns over £2k a month after tax. He lives with his partner who earns similar. That's £3.5k a month after he's paid me.

My income including that maintenance is £2k a month and I have to pay the bills for a 2 bedroom flat alone as I am single, my ex shares the bills for his 2 bedroom house with his partner (they have no DC living with them).

My ex is certainly not living in poverty but thankfully he's a decent bloke and doesn't moan about the unfairness as he knows he has it easy!

No, it shouldn't be included for all the reasons mentioned above. CM recovery needs to get a lot better - I would put NRPs in prison for non payment. I know it's expensive but you wouldn't have to do that to many NRPs to create a deterrent effect.

This thread would of gone a lot better i think had you of used the op to outline your own scenario rather than generalise. Fine your case may be un equal but you basically went on the attack to all single mothers claiming benefits and cm. Which of course will never be 100% your situation. Ive been the step mum before when the mums earning a ridiculous amount and my then partner barely made minimum wage it felt like a huge chunk to us and a drop in a vast ocean to her. I get the feeling of unequality. But you generalised and now you wont get an answer to your own situation.

The ridiculous thing about the lack of chasing NRP’s who don’t pay is that CMS have a lot of powers.

Pretty much all the powers people say they should have they already have.

The can put a DEO on wages and take money from a bank or savings account (regularly or as a one off) without even going to court for a liability order! They have those powers there and available, yet rarely use them

There is absolutely NO need for you to be so rude!

“you are listing normal household items which would be required anyway” NO the AMOUNTS are for the EXTRA costs incurred by having dc.

Without having a child I would be able to live in a 1 bed property, with cheaper council tax, my gas, electric, and for those in England on
Privatised water bills water would be cheaper because kids use hot water, heating and electric IN ADDITION to what the adults in a home use - does that REALLY surprise you?! They eat food EXTRA to what the adults are having (especially teens!), they create more dirt/mess, you have more dishes and clothes to wash, they use loo roll and soap and shampoo, they need clothes replaced very regularly because funnily enough a 14 year old isn’t the same size as a baby! They need to be transported to places, that isn’t free! They need beds and bedding and lamps, and all the other things I listed. If ANYTHING my costings are VERY VERY basic as I live in one of the cheapest parts of the country and I’m used to (because of my useless deadbeat ex) working on a tight budget which I’ve done for nearly 17 years, have you even got dc of your own? Do you even have the first clue how much it costs to keep them housed, fed, clothed? You sound extremely foolish and ill informed.

My point Re non paying nrps not being interested in seeing their dc is based on my own experience - not just as a single mother myself but in knowing quite a lot of single parents, and women that are nrps can be and are every bit as bad as deadbeat dads. Out of all the ones I know/know of (and I know/have known people on both sides of the debate) and without exception and I’m talking close to 200 people here, if the nrp begrudges or refuses to pay cm they are also very poor at maintaining contact with dc and often within 5 years are no longer in their dcs lives, a situation borne out by statistics gathered by organisations like gingerbread and...oh the govt!

“Maybe women should not be so money oriented and think of the Children.” Are you kidding?! It’s nrps that are obsessed with paying as little as possible! Rps are WORRIED about money precisely because they ARE thinking of the children - and the fact that they don’t want their kids going without FOOD, something you seem to think is acceptable!

You literally begrudge your step children being fed!

I got as far as the 50:50 suggestion before I couldn't stop myself posting.
My ex sees DS (at his choice) approx 1% of time in a year. He regularly cancels due to mystery illnesses, "work" (despite knowing contact dates in advance and claiming he cant afford any cm), weekends away (never takes DS) and on a least three occasions due to "bad weather!!"

How do you propose to enforce the 50:50 contract with nrps like this?? Should I dump DS outside his house and drive away? Get a police officer to talk to ExH about his parenting duty? Or should we have 50:50 enforcement officers up and down the country on call 24 hours a day? Please let me know your suggestions OP

PS I've had a case open with the child maintenance service for months now and received nothing despite ExH working.

I don't know ANY men in my social circle that have offered to do 50/50 care. My ex won't do 50/50 because of his job. Most men say they can't do 50/50 because "they have to work" but then women are also expected to work full time and do all the childcare too.

waxon exactly.
All these superhero men, sacrificing 80% of their wages, desperate to look after their children all day every day. Hoping that they can stay home night after night with a sick child. Rushing to sort out all the difficult situations which teenagers get into, going into school to sort things out. Not having a social life because their child comes first. All the millions of cases of men being owed £1000s by mothers who refuse to pay maintenance.

Oh wait,........... Where are all these hundreds of thousands of men?
Hmmmmmm.

I woke up this morning and had a realisation about the ‘weaponising of children for money’

I think this can happen to an extent when a RP feels very vulnerable financially and emotionally under the strain of the majority of the childcare, and the only leverage they have is money. It is usually sadly the case that NRP are more concerned about the money than they are the welfare of these children - if they leave the DC in the care of this supposedly awful manipulative RP for 80% of the time, and don’t go to court for more, what does that say about the NRP? Its common for trust to break down, and it is wrong for anyone to view a child as ‘pay per view’ or use the NRP as a ‘meal ticket’ but this relates more to the NRP who are very wealthy and are paying thousands in spousal and child maintenance.

I actually know a man who was left with his kids and the woman left and didn’t pay any CM. And when she did pay, all she did was complain. I don’t understand why people have children if you care about money more than you do the children or the welfare of their main carer. It speaks to me loudly the type of person who a. Thinks £400 a month is some small fortune b. Is dim enough not to have a real clue about the cost of raising kids and c, leaves kids with the NRP and then complains about what a money grabbing bitch she is

*c, leaves kids with the RP

You wouldn’t drop your kids off at a nursery then come back a week later and act all shocked and offended at the bill would you?

Maybe I haven't explained myself very well on here.

I understand there are plenty of NRPs who are arseholes and dont want to contribute or see their children. They should be dealt with by the court and jailed if necessary but if the NRP is willing to give up work what can they do?

Maybe the best way forward is if the government take maintenance from the wage packet automatically and given to the RP.

The only way to stop NRPs from not paying is make paying cash in hand illegal which would be controversial.

My big thing about Child Maintenance is no matter what gets paid it will never be enough on this materialistic world.

This wasn't a dig at all single mothers but some they like playing the system as much as the fathers do.

@PookieDo Who says 400 is enough? Remember the NRP still has the same Bill's as in housing utility Bill's as well as have money for food then still needs money for when the children are staying.

That's the point when relationships split there will be less money to go around. It's a fact of life.

There are far fewer single mothers playing any system and rather trapped in it than there are the sheer number of non paying fathers

This is why it is offensive and not controversial, you are talking about a very small % of single mothers who may be this way inclined VS thousands of non paying fathers

@PookieDo A nursery offer a service being a parent isn't and that's why putting monetary value on it is wrong

The NRP has 2 INCOMES IF HE HAS MET SOMEONE ELSE to pay for his overheads

RP has one if single

NRP doesn’t need a large house to have children 2 nights out of 14. My ex had a 2 bed flat for 10 years and the DC shared a room. Whereas I had them 6 nights out of 7 and needed more space. He only needed to wash their beds sheets every few weeks. I had to do it every week. They had 1 bath at his house vs 6 baths at mine

This is simple adding up, come on

Snowjon you are contradicting yourself here.
Have a serious think. Do you not think the government would include CM if it was feasible.
The facts are clear the majority of NRP do not pay CM.
If those that do, I think the figures are only around 20% do so of there own accord.
So the vast majority of NRP seriously do not give a shit.
Those are facts, not fiction.

Nobody should be using children as weapons.
If your dp wants 50/50 contact then he should approach his ex and suggest it.
If she refuses then seem legal advise.

If he doesn't want to have his children 50% of the time, then what is your issue?

You state that a rp new partner should be financially responsible for his new partners children and yet I doubt you think it should work the other way whereby YOU are held financially responsible for your partner's children.
You can't have it both ways and trust me, in 9/10 cases the absent father has it always.

It was before. And it was leaving people in poverty. Because most NRPs don’t pay at all, or don’t pay regularly.

If you want to put already struggling single parents into further poverty, you need to have a long hard look at yourself.

Also I’m betting your pissed at how much your partner is paying his ex.

I'll ask again: how exactly are single mothers playing the system? Claiming tax credits isn't playing the system, it's what they are there for.

Single mothers aren't playing a system, they're looking after their children and making sure they still get everything they need.
I suppose you feel when my kids were younger and I needed to earn 27k to break even due to 2 in childcare at a time when 30 hours wasnt for single parents that not working was playing the system. I suppose you also feel I've played the system by deciding to claim anything I can to help financially while I'm studying. I play the system so well that I get the summer holidays off with my kids and I use the CM to entertain them... playing the system? Or providing childcare to the NRP at 16% of their salary when just the summer break would cost me 2500 in holiday club fees.

Get a grip.