To be irked by this work/ travel situation?

[Unhappytraveler]

I have to travel regularly-ish for work to attend meetings, deliver updates etc. On the whole I don't mind this as I enjoy meeting colleagues from other offices, different interactions etc.

But there is clearly a 'cost' to me. The trips involve an early start (leaving home around 6.30am) and late return (7.30-8 or later) a day or two later plus 1-2 nights in a hotel away from my family. I also go to the gym most eves straight after work and unless the hotel has a gym I can't continue this. But I am still willing to do the travel or at least I was. We don't get TOIL or anything btw.

So the company I work for is now committed to cost cutting. Not for exec level of course who are still flying here and there or travelling first class by train. But for people at my level we are now asked to account for every expense.

It started with making us buy advance train tickets only. This is fine provided no plans get changed or trains arent cancelled. But I can see it saves money albeit there is some potential inconvenience.

Now it's hotels. So instead of staying in a mid price hotel near the local office, we have to stay in the cheapest. The hotel for my next trip is a 25 mins walk from the office through a rough part of town. We also used to get breakfast provided and a £25 meal allowance. We don't now get either. The expectation is we eat at the office (where there are kitchen facilities but which we would pay for ourselves) for breakfast...as to dinner I think we're expected to bear that cost ourselves too. And of course absolutely no gym facilities so I can't exercise either.

AIBU to feel aggrieved by this?

And how do I resolve? (Other than by either leaving or just refusing to do any future travel both of which I am currently considering!)

YANBU.
My company did similar.
You now can't claim any meals unless you're travelling outside the UK.
Somehow dinner costs a lot more if you're staying overnight in London that it doesn't if you're batch cooking a spag Bol but they don't seem to comprehend that!

Get taxis from your hotel to the train station etc and ask for a handwritten receipt. If you ask taxi drivers to write £10 more than they're actually charging, most will. Claim the expense back that way

Ask if you can reduce costs further by attending these meetings by video-conference.

We're not allowed taxis as all our offices are with in a 30 min walk of the mainline station...

I travel a lot - mainly internationally. We do have to watch what we spend, but the cheapest isn't always best. My boss would rather we spend a little more on hotels if staff feel safe. Cost is a factor - but not to the detriment of personal safety or you're so far away from mtg that taxis are needed.

3 meals a day are provided for in expenses if breakfast/lunch isn't part of your hotel/mtg. Taxis to/from airports if travelling at an ungodly hour

I also travel regularly on a weekly basis. They will generally also choose a cheaper hotel (and not one necessarily near my sites) and if the walk is over 25 minutes (or at an unsafe time eg at night), we are allowed to use taxis.

As for food, they pay for it ALL (well I have a company credit card) and quite frankly if I had to start subsidising my own meals I would tell them to go fuck themselves.

We don't have a budget but I obviously don't take the piss & some evenings I will just have a bed picnic from M & S rather than a full £25-30 meal.

I think they're being very very unfair to you as it's essentially making you out of pocket.

Can they sack you if you don't go to these meetings? If not I'd refuse to go anymore. Cheap shower of shites not giving a meal allowance.

Agree with @WhateverHappenedToMe. Unless there's a need for you to meet face to face, ask for them to be conducted via video conference or conference call.

It's a tough one. I used to work for a company where they would pay accommodation (to include breakfast) and then pay an allowance based on how many hours you were out of the normal office which was supposed to go towards the remainder of your meals. Ie the more time you were away, the higher the allowance to take into account increased travel and meal costs.

Of course with cost cutting they tried to put it to the cheapest hotel, but often paying for a taxi on top would push the hotel price up to staying nearer being cheaper.

I think yabu to expect the hotel to have gym facilities as this is a preference for you.

If you were home, you would be able to budget meals much better so removing your evening meal expense is unfair. You don't have any choice in where they send you and meals are often much more expensive unless you live off fast food while away.

I was going to say ask for breakfast to be included and evening meal expenses up to a certain amount but I see this is what they've taken away. It leaves them no room for negotiation for you to continue to travel away for work.

I think the gym issue aside - I'd argue you could go for a run. I suspect going to the gym most nights means you get your money's worth from any gym pass you get - you would be reasonable to say unless you have breakfast and transport to the office included (even if that's a bus or train pass) plus an allowance for an evening meal, it no longer works for you to continue with away trips. Lay out exactly how inconvenient it is being away from home doing the company a favour. Unless of course this is included in your contract, in which case I'd argue any changes would be deemed a change to your contracted employment and would have to be dealt with through the proper channels.

I work in a regional role and expenses are one of the biggest factors that make the job worth it or not.

If I'm travelling away from home there's a limit to how many soggy sandwiches I can carry with me which means I'll need food and drink throughout the day.

Luckily my employer is quite generous and I get breakfast, a snacky meal if coming home late and a proper meal if staying over. otherwise I'd be majorly out of pocket.

Yanbu

Work should provide you with a breakfast as how could you be expected to shop and buy provisions if you are on foot and have to use office kitchen and then factoring in time. Plus dinner imo.

I don't blame you for being miffed

I think that you need to be clear about what you will or won't do. I travel a lot and regardless of policy I refuse to take indirect flights or stay in shitty hotels to save the company money. If they won't look after me I am just not going. Interestingly I have never had my expenses questioned and I break our policy all the time. Not by being excessive, just by valuing my welfare over their rules.

i have a good friend in a very similar situation last year , she was also no longer allowed use the hotel phone to call home, or paid for wifi was at her cost, which the cheaper hotels all do, she simply quietly delinced to do any further travel for buisness, it took a few months and when her boss raised it at a review as a negative she just showed him what the cost to her was, with breakfast, lunch, dinner, wifi, dog walker etc she said three choices she will look elsewhere, at a time thats suits her as she was not contracted to do this travel at her cost, they give her a daily allowance that they can tax deduct whcih was what they had removed, and she would stay in same hotel as executives, or they raise her salery if they didnt want to be giving a precedent, her boss went with payrise and daily allowence.

advance book the rail tickets through the company, is fine if plans change its their loss not yours.

YANBU OP.

There is something about travel that makes companies think it's a good option for cost-cutting. My DH's company has had a travel ban for the last couple of years from about this time of year to the end of the financial year, they are awaiting the news now as they expect it. All my DH's work projects are elsewhere so he'll be using the phone conferencing facility instead.

YANBU

but I wouldn't mention the "going to the gym" business at all.

The gym thing for me is an additional layer of inconvenience, another irritation. Of itself clearly it's not a reason not to travel but it's something else I have to suck up.

My contract does refer to travel but nothing about overnights as it is intended more to cover as hoc meeting attendance rather than being in another office for 3 or 4 days.

Yanbu. We used to be able to claim back reasonable expenses (but travel still left me out of pocket for extra childcare and other expenses). Then they got really mean e.g. you can only claim for food on a plane if you have left domestic airspace , no taxis even when I was in plaster, pregnant and expected to haul heavy equipment across London. I had never claimed more than was strictly necessary so it felt like a slap in the face. It really makes you feel undervalued.

Well yes, but every other person has that level of inconvenience.

Others will miss their kids, their family, a hobby, some courses, their favourite tv program or whatever.

Everyone else has to suck up the inconvenience of not being home!

No, not everyone does because lots of my colleagues don't travel. I have a family as well, as I mentioned in my OP. Being away is inconvenient for many reasons. My job is one which involves going to other sites but the repeated overnights is not something I was originally expected or required to do.

It is difficult to arrange some of the meetings by phone as there are 20 odd people plus some are more upskilling sessions than meetings.

Use conference calls where you can and put up with the rest if you don’t want to move jobs. Most people who travel for work have to forgo the gym etc.

I don’t think the meal allowance being removed is unreasonable, you’d have to pay for meals at home so no different. Just take things with you.

Blimey, I'd be refusing to travel.
I'm in Germany. There is a minimum (I think it's included in employment law) amount of per diems that an employee is entitled to (depending on where they are. Germany is EUR 12 per day, IIRC, somewhere like Tokyo more like EUR 50 per day)

Companies can set their own amounts if they're higher but there may be a tax issue. But anyway.

I'm allowed to travel economy for under 4 hour flights, premium economy for anything over that. Hotels can cost up to $130 / night including breakfast. I can expense meals if I have to invite customers, otherwise i have to rely on the per diems (hotel picnic is good, angling to be invited by someone else is better…). Under German law they reckon that everyone has to eat breakfast wherever they are so 15% from the per diems is deducted if your hotel includes breakfast. If you expense a meal, 20% is deducted (better to be invited for all meals…)

If i travel over a weekend i can usually get the days back, etc, but I don't always bother (most of my trips are to pretty interesting places so my trade off is making sure i get to have a bit of a look around)

WiFi is paid by the company, i make sure to send a couple of emails to justify it if I have to pay. Taxis usually paid, and airport parking etc etc. I usually try not to take the piss, but I won't, for eg, fly back home and arrive at 10pm and then try to schlepp home on public transport and so on.

In the past i have booked my train tickets so early that I could travel in first class because it was cheaper than 2nd plus seat reservation. I like that part best.

Cost of making breakfast lunch and dinner at home and using water in the office is way less than the cost of eating out!

Even a cup of tea costs a couple of pounds that I would not have had to spend if I am in the office. I am typically 5 to 10 pounds down every time I have a meeting away from the office. And I carry supplies with me.

I don’t think the meal allowance being removed is unreasonable, you’d have to pay for meals at home so no different.
@IceCreamAndCandyfloss do you travel for work? this is completely unreasonable! at home you can eat cornflakes if you want, or yesterday's leftovers or something that you saw on Jack Munro's website for 43p. Or you're stuck in downtown Seoul and it costs $23 for the cheapest thing on a menu you don't understand in a place that's 20 minutes on foot from where you're staying but all the other places are scary AF.

But the main difference is, does she have suitable facilities to store, prepare, eat and wash up after home made food? In a hotel room she doesn't.

Maybe if she stayed in a serviced apartment, it would be reasonable to not be paid for food as she would have access to a kitchen, so is that an option.

Like a pp says, dinner away from home costs considerably more than batch cooked bolognese and that extra cost should be reimbursed by the employer. And I would expect that to be for a proper meal, not cold food or takeaways.

By removing the previous allowances, they've effectively cut the OPs pay. It's also not on that she doesn't get TOIL for working long days.

I'm probably over invested in this because earlier this month i was stuck in a hotel with no restaurant that served breakfast only after the meeting i was attending started. Lunch at the factory, which was … not good. Looking forward to eating in the evening but there were literally no restaurants there (a little off the beaten track) and the only place within walking distance was an extremely rough looking bar with no food. They sold me 2 bottles of beer and a packet of crisps and that was my dinner.

Not that I'm grumpy about that (and also because i only had hand luggage and had therefore left my swiss army knife at home I DIDN'T HAVE A BOTTLE OPENER)

If not everyone does this travelling, can you say you don’t want to do it anymore as you’re out of pocket and don’t feel safe? What would they say?