To be irked by this work/ travel situation?

[Unhappytraveler]

I have to travel regularly-ish for work to attend meetings, deliver updates etc. On the whole I don't mind this as I enjoy meeting colleagues from other offices, different interactions etc.

But there is clearly a 'cost' to me. The trips involve an early start (leaving home around 6.30am) and late return (7.30-8 or later) a day or two later plus 1-2 nights in a hotel away from my family. I also go to the gym most eves straight after work and unless the hotel has a gym I can't continue this. But I am still willing to do the travel or at least I was. We don't get TOIL or anything btw.

So the company I work for is now committed to cost cutting. Not for exec level of course who are still flying here and there or travelling first class by train. But for people at my level we are now asked to account for every expense.

It started with making us buy advance train tickets only. This is fine provided no plans get changed or trains arent cancelled. But I can see it saves money albeit there is some potential inconvenience.

Now it's hotels. So instead of staying in a mid price hotel near the local office, we have to stay in the cheapest. The hotel for my next trip is a 25 mins walk from the office through a rough part of town. We also used to get breakfast provided and a £25 meal allowance. We don't now get either. The expectation is we eat at the office (where there are kitchen facilities but which we would pay for ourselves) for breakfast...as to dinner I think we're expected to bear that cost ourselves too. And of course absolutely no gym facilities so I can't exercise either.

AIBU to feel aggrieved by this?

And how do I resolve? (Other than by either leaving or just refusing to do any future travel both of which I am currently considering!)

I don’t think the meal allowance being removed is unreasonable, you’d have to pay for meals at home so no different. Just take things with you.
Of course it's different!

Just take things with you.

What, including the camping stove? Get real - the OP is away in cheap hotels for 3-4 days. Her company are being really tight.

That sounds awful Brefugee. I love food and eating and consider it one of my hobbies, so any time I end up eating a meal I don't enjoy for whatever reason I see it as a major disappointment and missed opportunity.

Maybe the lack of a bottle opener was the inspiration behind one of the corporate gifts I picked up at my professional association's conference, where they were giving away branded bottle opener keyrings (small, lightweight, no sharp edges, yet a nice quality bottle opener). I have one on my keys, so have access to a bottle opener every time I leave the house.

Yadnbu nows the opportunity to get a YouTube channel set up for them all to watch with the up skilling on and then do a follow up conference call

Call it a cost saving exercise

I agree that not all meetings are suitable for phone conferences as well OP, I think it's ridiculous! Some work things are better done face to face.

Also agree with Brefugee, DH has also done the point-and-eat thing (in Seoul as well, actually!) many times. It's not like just picking up a sandwich somewhere.

The place i was staying was actually something like a cross between a hotel and a hostel. On the 2nd night i found a kitchen with bottle opener, so that night was better ;)

And since rearranged all my meetings i drove back to the airport along the coastal route and stopped for lunch on a beach and ate a cheese sandwich with my feet in the water. So not all bad, not ideal but i'll take it :)

I now have a simple stamped out of metal bottle opener in my bag that is hand luggage compliant. Not being caught out like that again!

from PP i missed the "just take things with you"

[shocked]

I'm in the far east next month. The hotel has an infinity pool so that's good, I'll effectively be travelling for something approaching 48 hours for a 3 hour meeting and dinner. Not so good. Swings and roundabouts...

Not entirely helpful, but HMRC will give you a tax credit on your earnings for any expenses you're entitled to, but which aren't being reimbursed by your employer. Unfortunately you can only do this in arrears after the end of the tax year, so you'd be out of pocket in the meantime. Also you're not being reimbursed for the whole cost

www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/travel-and-overnight-expenses

YADNBU though - talk about making your staff feel like an inconvenience rather than a benefit!

I think there are two issues here for OP; one is the expense policy, the second is traveling overnight.

The first can be challenged especially if you're out of pocket. The second is harder if it is genuinely needed.

I regularly hold webinar/skype meetings with 30 people - but they are operational. But we also hold webinars for smaller groups for in-depth training.

But I sense OP you are not happy about travelling full stop - so this is the third issue. I travel all the time - including over weekends - sometimes I can be away for a week at a time. I just have to be super organised to see the people I love - I don't often take all my days back. You need to decide if you are happy to travel or not - and I don't mean to come across as harsh - but consider another job if you decide you don't want to do it.

That’s outrageous! I put every single meal and coffee I have when i travel on my company card (can spend up to £100 a day on food). Hotels - we have a budget and within that you can choose your own. For short trips it’s not cost saving to be far from the meeting venue/conference. i would refuse to travel unless they change the policy.

They are being totally unreasonable - it is standard that if you are travelling for work, they pay for the costs you incur, including all meals and travel expenses. I'd also argue that they should not be putting you in cheap hotels in a dodgy area as it's a safety issue.

I would decline to travel and say you'll be attending via conference call or video unless they change their policy on this.

also in my company a lot of people complained about Hotels without gyms and we can all book Hotels with gym now.

I am in the US and have to travel under what are called “government per-diem” rules. They are quite strict and definitely aim for cheap. However, they are nothing like what you describe. We get a flat rate for food each day. Even in the most expensive cities, I have never felt like I was too constrained by budget on eating. Hotels have to be fairly cheap, but they are still regular business hotels, mostly we get the worst rooms because they negotiate discounts with the government, but the hotels are still fine. Advance booking is strongly encouraged, but that is fine because if work cancels or changes the trip, they cover the costs.

I wouldn’t be willing to do work travel how you are describing. You already face potential expenses in covering extra child care, pet sitting, etc that work does not cover. Plus luggage, travel friendly wardrobe, etc. the very least they can do is cover moderately priced meals.

Are there not employment laws regarding travel in the UK? There should be a minimum per diem and meal allowance set by them. It is unacceptable to be on obligatory travel and not have basics like food covered. And actual complete travel, not including walking to the meeting site!

A hotel in a sketchy area is not suffice. You should feel safe and not be worrying about your safety and if not, a taxi, Uber etc should be used.

Your company is being very unreasonable IMO

The fact you have a family is irrelevant

I wouldn't hold out for a hotel with a gym

But for the rest, YANBU

An absolute joke to cut these expenses. I travel 10days out of 14 in Europe and I only get £25 a day for food after tax. We stay in works provided apartments as well.
Car, car parking, flights, trains etc are all provided plus WiFi and company phone. No extra money for dining out though.
Taxis are ok if necessary.
I don’t think our rates are generous. Your company is taking the mickey.

@Purpleartichoke I worked for the Canadian Gov’t and we had similar. A set amount daily for extras ie anything we forgot, it was a token amount daily but added up, a set amount for each meal that was reasonable for most places. Nothing fancy but enough to cover a healthy meal if wanted. There was always gov’t rates at set hotels. If we had to stay elsewhere we needed to make a request.

All travel requests had to be approved prior. If you went above meal allowance it was on you to pay. Travel was on them as was hotel as long as it was approved.

OP, your situation is ridiculous if travel is mandatory. They want you there, they pay as you are out of pocket.

You are not being unreasonable, and I'd be refusing to travel. This is eating away at your personal time, and your personal money. Why should you be subsidising the company?

I'd be thinking they must be in serious financial do-do anyway, so possibly it is time for every good little rat's whiskers to start twitching, and maybe thinking of looking for an alternative ship. . .

Ask if you can reduce costs further by attending these meetings by video-conference.

It's quite unreasonable (but surprisingly common) for a company to expect staff to stay somewhere unsafe or not pay for basic meals when away on business.

For what it's worth, I used to work for a company that made you share a room with a (same-sex) colleague when in the US. Needless to say, this was not popular.

I've never worked anywhere that wouldn't pay for dinner when away overnight, and I've worked in a place that made people stay in France and cross into Switzerland daily rather than pay Swiss hotel costs.

I think you have to challenge it or look for a new job. Companies know they have to sweeten the deal when asking employees to be inconvenienced.

I refuse flat out to share. Ever. It's completely unreasonable, IMO.

They are being idiotic and completely unreasonable, particularly with respect to evening meals. I wonder where your contract stands in terms of whether you are on fixed hours too. Travelling to meetings should count as working hours. At the moment they are getting lots of your time for free.

How annoying.

Completely unreasonable. I think some employers think you should be out of pocket because you should love working so much. I have refused to attend conferences as i was expected to do a 4 hour train journey to attend the afternoon then come home, they wouldn't pay for a hotel. Absolutely not!

We have it listed in our handbook how much is allowed for flights/daily meals. I'd definitely be raising safety concerns and the changes with your manager along the lines of:

• I don't get any additional time for travelling or TOIL
• you're willing to make cheaper changes but not at the risk of your personal safety (especially if they don't allow taxis either)
• what are they expecting for meals, especially if you're away on company business.

It's stuff like this that makes people leave a company