Pedants

[Frenchw1fe]

Do some people really browse Mumsnet with the purpose of commenting on the use of English language and add nothing of any use to the original topic.
I have read many threads where the OP is extremely put off by some of the ‘superior ‘ attitudes of those who may be academically intelligent but emotionally stilted if their first thought is to criticise language skills rather than offer advice on the problem.

Surely everyone in need of advice should feel able to post on mumsnet without worrying about a few grammar mistakes.
Please feel free to criticise any mistakes in my post at least you’ll be leaving some other poor person alone.

I notice that you tend to see the well educated and eloquent writers with a good grasp of English defending the posters with bad spelling and poor English.
Why is it any less patronising to do this rather than point out, for example, that you cannot understand an OP’s post due to their inability to construct a sentence/use punctuation etc ?
I can tell the difference (normally) when someone is writing on a phone quickly, English isn’t their first language or they just a have poor level of English education. I don’t care, but why should I have to decipher the code that is their version of English because they chose not to learn how to use punctuation or spell properly ?
I know my grammar is a bit shit, I’m not clever enough to have made grammar errors on purpose (I could pretend), but people have a right to post incomprehensible posts as much as people have a right to criticise their posts surely.

Why is it any less patronising to do this rather than point out, for example, that you cannot understand an OP’s post due to their inability to construct a sentence/use punctuation etc

In 13+ years on MN I am yet to see a post that is impossible to understand. That is simply a way of imposing your alleged educational superiority.

I don’t care, but why should I have to decipher the code that is their version of English because they chose not to learn how to use punctuation or spell properly

You don’t. You can simply close a thread, it isn’t compulsory to read every post.

I don’t think all these alleged “pedants” are as clever as they like to think they are.

Yes, it’s only a chat forum, but those using “of” instead of “have” or mixing up such basics as brought/bought and loose/lose aren’t just doing it here, they are embarrassing themselves in other situations that are probably far more important eg. work.
I agree on those sorts of errors.

However, the people who decide to be arsey to them, correct them and make a scene when the post is clearly someone seeking advice on a situation aren't doing it to help them with their literacy in order to avoid silly mistakes in the workplace. There's nothing kind about what they're doing. They're just trying to have a go and make themselves feel better.

I am pointing out as to why some people are self appointed guardians and defenders of the poor spellers (example).
I don’t bother answering a post if I don’t understand it obvs.
Is it not as pedantic to make a post in Aibu about this ?

I don’t see why people can’t just learn to write, the rules are not that hard!

Especially the rules about using a semi-colon to separate two independent clauses rather than comma-splicing, but that appears to have passed you by, Althea?

I see both sides of this.

I am dyslexic and have some proper dickheads, here, pick me up on slight misspellings. When you point out you are dyslexic theres a lot of virtue signalling about how they are 'pendants' and wouldnt normally make fun of someone with dyslexia, how they have friends with it, but they just couldnt help themseleves. The phrase is usually something about making their brain itch. Oddly, its only ever been done when people disagree with my opinion. So it's not pendantry, its thinking their opinion holds more weight, if they can belittle the person they are debating.

But also, sometimes is really important. I have seen posts where the comma should have been a full stop and it's really changed what the op is trying to say.

I think asking and clarifying something is fine. Being a condescending dick, is not.

I am pointing out as to why some people are self appointed guardians and defenders of the poor spellers
It's not about being defenders of poor spelling.
It's about thinking there's no need to be an arse about SPAG on a message board.

If someone's worried about what to do with an unplanned pregnancy, they don't need anyone thinking "that use of the incorrect homophone is awful... I shall just inform the OP of that so they can be more enlightened in the future".

I've had to correct presentation material for colleagues and mark for literacy at work on a daily basis. Do I care that sometimes I miss the fact that my new phone's autocorrect seems to wrongly predict where the sentence was going and add awful apostrophes in some plural words (e.g. dad's )? No, because it really doesn't matter. although it matters to me because I haven't worked out how to override it yet but that's my own technological failing so any advice for hideous Google keyboard is most welcome

@28JacquesHammer WTF? This is the UK - a decade in education and access to books isn't privilege, it's the norm. We have free education for all and public libraries.

@usernamerisnotavailable I agree but I do find it very, very hard to ignore hideous grammar. I try to just grumble time myself but it really does make my teeth itch!

Especially true when grammar and spelling mistake-ridden communications come from people who should know better. I don't think I've had a single letter from my kids' primary school that hasn't had a spelling mistake or some grammatical howler in it.

There's a poster up in my work's staffroom from a government department trying to encourage people to join Community Council's.

It's a lost cause. We do live in an Idiocracy.

WTF? This is the UK - a decade in education and access to books isn't privilege, it's the norm. We have free education for all and public libraries

And yet with your “decade in education” you cannot copy and paste a username

Not everyone has access to a decent education. You can rant and puff out your chest and do the whole “this is the UK” spiel but it is a simple and very real fact.

I think it would be interesting to hear the point of view from the people some posters are talking about and see what they think instead of assuming moral superiority as to their best interests. Perhaps they don’t give a shit ?

@ Anotherlongdrive

I am dyslexic and have some proper dickheads, here, pick me up on slight misspellings. When you point out you are dyslexic theres a lot of virtue signalling about how they are 'pendants' and wouldnt normally make fun of someone with dyslexia, how they have friends with it, but they just couldnt help themseleves.

Would it help if you thought of these people as being on the autistic spectrum? - which, I'm sure, drives a lot of my need to correct crappy grammar.

Compulsive pedants are just neurologically different. Like Dyslexics.

Would it help if you thought of these people as being on the autistic spectrum? - which, I'm sure, drives a lot of my need to correct crappy grammar.

What? Why is 'let's assign peoples poor behaviour to on the spectrum', becoming a default on MN?

My son has autisim. This really fucks me off.

People who are NT, can be dicks. Often are.

Why would you assume the must be in the spectrum. When it's far more likely that they are just being dicks.

RedSheep73 how ignorant you are

I think people who pick on peoples grammar are rude. Theres just no need.

Some of the posts written will have been written in haste when someone is upset or somthing & instead of getting advice people start getting arsey about grammar. Its shitty of people

And if someone cant spell properly, so what? It doesnt make them any less smart than you or me does it?

I thank a poster on another thread for enlghtning me about Muphrys law, the incorrect spelling is deliberate

And if someone cant spell properly, so what? It doesnt make them any less smart than you or me does it?

No it doesn't but it does make them LOOK 'less smart'.

If someone slaps on a lot of badly applied makeup it doesn't alter them physically - doesn't alter who they are, but it sure as hell changes the way people perceive them.

No it doesn't but it does make them LOOK 'less smart'

In your opinion of course, which isn’t fact.

My first thoughts tend to be “autocorrect has got them again”, but then I don’t judge someone’s worth on their spelling so...

We have free education for all and public libraries.

Where do you live, the 1960's?

@Anotherlongdrive My daughter has autism. Her need to correct things which she sees as 'wrong' while not grasping that 'sometimes it's all right just to let things go' and not seeing the need to do things which other people see as important - and therefore 'wrong' tothem - is (to put it mildly) chuffing annoying at times. But I bite my tongue and remind myself it's her nature. Not her fault.

In your opinion of course, which isn’t fact.

Yes. That's what I said.

Yes. That's what I said

Not where I quoted, but maybe you meant to.

If I come across a post that I find difficult to make sense of, for whatever reason, I shut it down and don't bother to read it.

I don't wade through it and then pick it apart as if I'm marking it for content, spelling and grammar.

Some people can't write well. In spite of the fact that they, been to school they haven't learned the rules of spelling, grammar and punctuation. Perhaps English isn't their first language, perhaps they have genuine language problems or perhaps they're just in a hurry and type without thinking about it too deeply and then don't proof read.

Why the self appointed SPAG police think it's their place to comment and criticise is anyone's guess. Probably they like the feeling of superiority it gives them.

I think you actually must be a bit thick if you think sneering about someone's grammar is the best response to a post where someone is upset and the meaning of their post is perfectly clear.

But is this attitude any better? For every poster that says ‘I couldn’t understand any of that’, someone else will pop up to say ‘Well you must be a little bit stupid then, because I understood it perfectly’. I think such posters convince themselves they are sticking up for the underdog and are therefore in some way superior, when in reality they’re being just as rude.

Maybe in your eyes anyone who struggles to understand posts along the lines of ‘We done like loads of stuff the last three weekends and we was out three times this week and I’m like I just wanna stay in and chill tonite?! But his all like I wanna go out and you was happy to go out last nite?!’ is ‘a bit thick’. Personally I mentally disengage after a couple of lines of that. Just as MN isn’t somewhere where perfect SPAG is obligatory, it shouldn’t require translation software either.

I'm dyslexic. I've worked very hard to manage my spelling difficulties. I have a first class BA and distinction at MA which I definitely had to work harder to get. I don't make a lot of spelling errors but if I do and someone points it out I feel like shit and that all my work in my education and career is worthless.

On Monday I heard something on radio 4 about someone who is also dyslexic being regularly mocked on twitter for spelling and grammar mistakes. Some of things people said were horrible and so disproportionate. I know that's twitter for you!

It made me think, you have no idea why someone is making these mistakes. I appreciate not everyone has dyslexia. However I'd say most people make these errors because they don't know any better. You could argue they should know better but anyone with even a tiny bit of understanding of how socio economic background links to educational attainment should realise it is not simply laziness or a choice to make spelling and grammar mistakes.