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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think wages should cover the cost of living?

206 replies

KeepYourCup · 25/10/2019 22:28

I'm a single parent, I work full time and pay for childcare for my primary school ages child. I physically can't work any more hours and my salary is just above the NMW.

I rely on top-up benefits from Universal Credit to get by. We have a nice life - nothing fancy but there is food on the table, a comfortable home, car etc. I realise I am in a better position than many people who claim UC but it pisses me off that I am left relying on it each month.

Last month they wiped out my entire payment with only a couple of days warning. I am appealing that decision but in the meantime I ended up having to borrow money to cover a couple of bills and a repair on my car.

Single parent families are normal, and households should be able to get by on one wage. My rent alone eats up almost half of my take-home pay, and I only live in a two-bed flat so not a huge house with a garden or anything.

I realise its all relative and that everyone's circumstances are different, but there is something very wrong when an adult working full time doesn't earn enough to cover the costs of simple living when there is only one adult and one small person living at home.

AIBU?

OP posts:
KeepYourCup · 26/10/2019 19:41

In this particular set of circumstances the OP could probably move to a cheaper flat. Two bedrooms are not essential.

I don't want to move to a cheaper flat. I don't need to move to a cheaper flat. As I said, I have enough to get by, it just irks me that I have to claim benefits when I'm working full time and the fact that the current benefits system is such a fucking shambles it can drop you in the shit with only a couple of days notice.

And, for clarity, I worked it out properly and my rent is 38% of my basic wage.

OP posts:
Witchinaditch · 26/10/2019 19:50

Good luck I’m so sorry you’re struggling.

timshelthechoice · 26/10/2019 20:19

In this particular set of circumstances the OP could probably move to a cheaper flat. Two bedrooms are not essential.

Yes, because LL's are diving over themselves to take tenants on UC who have kids (and rent them a 1-bed, because they're so greedy and entitled to want 2) and moving is free, no huge layout of first month's rent and deposit (you have to wait to get your old one back after you move out) Hmm

Iwantacookie · 26/10/2019 20:33

It comes back to why should she? She had a 2 bed property which is what she is allowed as per HA policies and works hard to live in a slightly nicer area. Isn't that the point? She should have a choice because shes not the dregs of society.

MyDcAreMarvel · 26/10/2019 20:43

Households with two adults with one unable to work due to sickness, disability or unaffordable childcare revive no such discount and have to provide for two adults needs.” That’s not actually quite true.

Adults unable to work due to sickness or disability like myself get council tax rebate as part of welfare benefits, how much varies and is ridiculously complicated.

Well it is true for me I don’t claim welfare benefits so have no such discount.

MyDcAreMarvel · 26/10/2019 20:45

And those who aren’t working due to having young children, not sure of the rules now but when I was a single mum and on benefits initially when I split from ex I think I got council tax rebate then too.*
You keep referring to benefits, I am talking about a couple where one person works the other looks after the dc. No benefits are claimed.

KeepYourCup · 26/10/2019 20:52

I don't get a council tax rebate, I get a discount on my council tax as a single person - which is fair since I obviously use less water/rubbish collection/ whatever else it covers than a household with two or more adults would.

OP posts:
MyDcAreMarvel · 26/10/2019 21:10

Yes than two or more adults but a single adult with three dc would use the same , most likely more than a couple with one dc.

blubelle7 · 26/10/2019 21:11

Personally I think if you are in full time employment and claiming UC, your employer must reimburse the taxpayer for all the employees who claim while working for them as they do not earn enough. Maybe that will incentivise companies to pay a living wage.

The taxpayer is effectively subsidising companies and corporations by topping up low wages.

MouseMartin · 26/10/2019 21:41

From today's Guardian:

'In the UK, we are all shelling out huge sums on rent and mortgages that could be used to pay tax on collective goods and services, or to buy those goods and services directly.

In 2017, the total amount of rent paid by tenants in Britain soared to more than £50bn, more than double the level seen a decade ago. The total level of mortgage payments has changed little in that time, as the old pay off their loans and own homes outright, while the young take on bigger loans over longer periods to pay ever higher property prices.'

amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/26/uk-economy-high-rents-eating-away-at-future-public-spending

JustAnotherPoster00 · 26/10/2019 21:49

That’s the magic trick and most people are gullible enough to fall for it, while the rich that own the media and deride socialism and immigration persuade you to do the same while you’re on the bones of your ass they are busy working on transferring the wealth from the state to private hands through rent for landlords, water and electricity and telecommunications bills, tax credits for businesses who have billions in profit globally and absolutely slaughter in the media the 1 party who’s leader has put his head above the parapet and said ‘maybe our country should be working for those who have very little and not the ones who are luxuriantly comfortable’ and people fall for it and actively work against it, because some of you are already luxuriantly comfortable and some of you think that you will be eventually so of course you want those same rules, those rules that are causing massive amounts of deaths through poverty and homelessness [smh]

dimsum123 · 26/10/2019 22:09

@blubelle7, yes that is absolutely what should happen.

It's a very simple solution of ensuring people are paid a living wage as companies that pay enough to enable a decent basic standard of living won't have to reimburse taxpayers.

But with the current government there is zero chance of anything even close to that being implemented. Sad

helacells · 26/10/2019 22:14

That's capitalism for you. I don't know anyone who can survive without at least one side hustle

PixieDustt · 26/10/2019 22:25

£30k for part time! Sign me up 😩.
Me and DP do between us 80+ hours a week and bring in £38kish between us. We rent and most of our wages goes on rent/council tax. It's not an option to leave the area it's just pricey to rent down south! 🤬
Feel your pain OP!

KeepYourCup · 26/10/2019 22:38

The taxpayer is effectively subsidising companies and corporations by topping up low wages.

I pay taxes.

OP posts:
NeverTwerkNaked · 26/10/2019 22:53

Can't you just win the lottery?

NeverTwerkNaked · 26/10/2019 22:56

Being facetious obviously. It frustrates me when people think the solution is straightforward.

It is ghastly that the system is so flawed that you can be working hard and budgeting carefully and still end up lurching through uncertainty.

I claimed tax credits for a bit as a single parent and it was was monstrously complex and confusing. At work I do complex multi million pound corporate tax filings, but that tax credit form was far more confusing.

I won't claim to have the answers op but I agree it is monstrously unjust.

Maybe time for a change of government...

Twofurrycatsagain · 27/10/2019 00:06

I don't know what the solution is...... If you raise the minimum wage I think the new minimum just becomes the old minimum. For example, (very basic one) if you employ 3 people on 8 quid odd an hour in a shop and it goes up to 12 either prices go up or one person loses their job (wage bill stays the same).
UC is a nightmare. I'm helping someone try to sort out their financial situation at moment. To not receive any UC they would have to work about 60 hours more a month. By the time you factor in travel costs for extra days they are no better off.

TwistedBirkenstockBlister · 27/10/2019 00:10

@helacells trouble is that someone always loses. My friend is a full time P.A, also does face-painting on the weekends to make ends meet. She's a single mum and I bet her dc's just want to see their mum more. I could work seven days a week and not claim benefits, but then if I never see my kids what's it all for?

HelenaDove · 27/10/2019 00:28

*I actually don’t think council housing should be for life.

I think it should be there when you start out in life or if you need it after an upheaval but I think a time limit needs to be imposed.

So people know that they have 5/10 years to save enough to either buy or rent privately as they need to make way for someone in need*

Ooh look Someone else who has conflated housing estates with hostels.

Someone else who has bought into the welfarisation of social housing hook line and sinker.

Its usually the same people who come out with this shit who THEN come out with gems like how housing estates are dodgy and crime ridden and how they wouldnt buy a house near there . When they got what they bloody wanted and now housing estates ARE becoming hostels. Cognitive dissonance at its very fucking finest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HelenaDove · 27/10/2019 00:40

www.insidehousing.co.uk/comment/comment/housing-associations-must-stop-acting-as-if-their-tenants-need-to-be-saved-63659

Housing associations must stop acting as if their tenants need to be saved

COMMENT
15/10/19
BY ELIZABETH SPRING

After a comment piece calling for no return to lifetime tenancies, Elizabeth Spring argues that housing associations must stop treating their tenants as if they need saving

Inside Housing recently published an opinion piece by a senior housing practitioner outlining her belief that lifetime tenancies are for a bygone era. Tenants should rent for a maximum seven years and understand they’re “temporary custodians of a property”.

OK.

On Twitter, I commented:“Housing associations are from a bygone era when working people expected to be part of a respectful social contract. Decent comfortable homes for life, affordable for people with medium to lower-paid jobs. Now, chivvying and temporary tenures are inflicted by judgemental gatekeepers.”

Elizabeth Spring
@ESpringW11
Housing Associations are from a bygone era when working people expected to be part of a respectful social contract. Decent comfortable homes for life, affordable for people with medium to lower paid jobs. Now, chivvying & temporary tenure are inflicted by judgemental gatekeepers

Usually when I vent my irritation on Twitter at the pernicious social engineering beloved by some scions of social housing, I get a few “likes” from tenants and academics.

This time lots of people – tenants, leaseholders, housing sector staff and commentators, joined in agreeing. So Inside Housing offered me space to expand my response. Now I come to write it, there’s far too much to say. It’s obvious the issue is a lack of secure homes. The answer is not that more people should live insecurely, surely?

I think some providers have shifted into continually reminding tenants the properties we live in and pay for don’t belong to us. But where is the acknowledgement of the rent we pay, the lives we lead, our right to agency in our own lives?

A high percentage of tenants are middle-aged and older: we took tenancies as a mainstream option when we were young – and our homes were explicitly rented for life and referred to usually as community or public housing

The selling off of many council homes without replacement and the rise in the dominance of corporate giant housing associations, has of course changed the landscape. Now hugely paid decision-makers are unlikely to be renting or have as their own neighbours the retail staff, nurses, care workers, community and voluntary sector employees, factory workers, manual tradespeople, nursery nurses and health professionals who are still “social” tenants.

Nowadays many landlords’ employees approach tenants as the endlessly characterised “most vulnerable in society”, eagerly keen to help us aspire. That most of us don’t want or need to, seems to have been lost. Being clientised in older age when we have no way of moving anywhere else is painful and demeaning. But what of younger tenants?

The shrunken pool of homes has made gatekeeping the norm. Somehow the long term lack of supply has led to the message our homes belong not to us but to our landlords’ staff. And even more bizarrely, so do our lives! Employees increasingly behave as if they manage “communities” rather than simply ensuring the buildings we rent are in good nick.

The real message of temporary tenures, is that people should be processed and managed. All-powerful strangers behind computers, grant probationary tenancy agreements to tenants who must first declare themselves as mad, bad or sad.

Later they decide how long people can live in their homes. Are they needy and vulnerable enough? Earning little enough? Obedient enough?

The question could be “how can we bring together neighbourhoods to advise and lobby for the homes that are required?” not “how can we move this latest bunch out of ‘our’ properties?”

The deficit model is a self-feeding monster. People living through temporary crises get labelled with a victim identity that must be retained to keep a home

Landlords begin to claim to turn round people’s lives, enable people to be independent, empower people. Yet people move forward after divorce, illness, bereavement, redundancy and times of acute poverty in every form of housing tenure.

Providing good homes with rents linked to local incomes is an invaluable, essential thing. It doesn’t need to trigger claims of saviourhood or rescue, or demean those renting them.

If we’re all clients, conversations die out and “engagement strategies” move in. People in all their diversity and difference are described en bloc as “our residents”. Tenant comes to mean lower person. The strengths and expertise of multi-generational, resilient working people are sidelined.

Last year I helped set up a community-led housing forum in London where I live. The eagerness for self-run options was exciting. People from private and social rented housing, young adults still living with parents, co-op members wanting to expand their offer, gathered in a series of well-attended meetings. At the end people were asked to summarise the sessions. The same refrains rang out each time

Where will our children live?”, “let’s try to reach our landlords and start a dialogue of equals”, “I love the idea of gaining control of my own life” and “we’re stronger together”.

When the Brexit palaver is over and presumably we have a new government, we – neighbourhoods, campaigners, politicians, housing providers – should meet and move forward into a cleaner, more respectful relationship.

Let’s ditch temporary tenancies and try, together, to create more homes.

Elizabeth Spring, third sector development manager

broomzoom · 27/10/2019 06:17

It would be so much better for the economy & well-being if we had lower house prices & rents. Of course there is a market for rent & landlords do provide a service however I think it's wrong that people use it as a get rich scheme & when people are paying more in rent than a mortgage would cost.
The country is in for some very tough economic times over the next few decades but there isn't the appetite for any change. Look at the outrage over the means tested TV license, where is the outrage over young people paying so much of their salary in rent? I say this as a homeowner.

Xenia · 27/10/2019 06:34

It is very hard to be what everyone will agree is "fair". My doctor uncle (a socialist) had a council house in the 1940s. The aim then was that whatever your social status and earnings you had your entitlement to that housing so we had rich and poor living next to each other - all paid in and all took out.

We decided to change that from the original Beveridge plan where you paid in, worked hard and took out with a safety net for those who could never work, to a system where we aid the less well off. I am not sure that has worked so well and taking child benefit away from many families has meant people feel less part of a fair system.

There are two models in the EU - one is aid only for those very down on their luck and usually just for temporary periods until they get a job; or you pay your national insurance contributions and then are given a reasonable pay out when out of work until you get back into work which is much higher than minimal state benefits for those who can never work. In the UK we seemed to have moved to the latter despite setting the system up as the former so just about everyone feels short changed. We have fairly high taxes now with few of the tax allowances of the 1970s even. Yet places like Sweden have even abolished inheritance tax.

We ;paid 50% of each of our net full time salaries for childcare when I had my first baby - and I mean baby - she was 3 weeks old when I was back working full time.

Verily1 · 27/10/2019 07:27

Someone above hit the nail on the head- tax land.

It’s absurd that we don’t pay tax on unearned profit from house price rises.

Council tax should be the owners responsibility not the occupants.

Tax should be per household with tax free allowances for dcs/ disabilities/ childcare.

We tax low income groups far too much.

People are on here saying how much their rent/ c tax/ travel/ childcare is but no one thinks about how much tax they pay! Work it out! Add up the income tax, national insurance, council tax but also the vat, duties on petrol/ tobacco/ alcohol/ lottery- the poor pay so much more in stealth taxes than the rich- often more than 50% of income!

My tax bill is 3x my mortgage- crazy!!

broomzoom · 27/10/2019 08:22

Someone above hit the nail on the head- tax land

Yep.
I also think we need to look at taxing wealth & not just income as there is too much disparity between older generations who tend to own & younger ones who don't.