To set up a club at school for SEN children

[pinksparkleunicorns]

I am a teacher in a state secondary school. I would like to set up an extra-curricular club (either lunchtime or after school) which involves looking after a school pet (probably baby goats - we have approval to put some in the school paddock).

I want to run two clubs. One for any students but one which is only children with special needs.

AIBU to stipulate that one session is ONLY for SN children? It could be anything - from dyslexia to cerebral palsy and children from the deaf community.

I have a DC with special needs. My thoughts behind it are that it gives these children a chance to meet others with extra difficulties in life. To talk to them and share their stories. But I am worried that this could backfire? There will be the second session of the same club where anyone - SN or not can join.

Please can we avoid a thread where the well-being of the goats is discussed - we have a huge paddock and a local farmer who lives next door will oversee their upkeep so they will be very well looked after.

My son's school does lots of things for children on their SEN register (whether diagnosed or not). This includes things like a room they can go to at lunchtimes, access to the school dog and coffee mornings where their parents are invited.

I think it can be done, but you don't need to advertise the special needs session. I would instead approach the individual children (with staff permission) and let them know there is a club on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Let them know the Wednesday club is smaller group and people with additional needs such as hearing difficulties or asd are being invited to this, but the other class is open to everyone. I think that's the better way. The other kids needn't know the Wednesday class is only for kids with additional needs.

Sounds great

If you’re a signer, presumably that means you work with the deaf children? It would be pretty natural to run a deaf club. It would be great to get some young adults/people from the deaf community in.

My daughter would have loved it at lunch. She was desperate to leave by the end of the day.
Perhaps have one club by invitation only, the other open to anyone who applies.
Asking your senco for a list of students who you can send an invitation to might be good.

I think lots of parents would be very happy.
I'd love DD to have more activities especially in sport as she has HFA DCD her coordination is awful and it makes her feel inferior with an NT group.

Treetops

Neither of my children have any issues academically. They are not stigmatised by having additional needs but they are helped by having them recognised. Neither of these things means that they wouldn’t benefit from a club away from the herd of teens who treat them like crap because they are not socially on the same level.

Breaktimes, lunchtimes and clubs are the toughest parts of the day for socially challenged kids. The main barrier to academic achievement for them is the stress and anxiety from other children.

You really aren’t coming across as compassionate more hey that pesky SEN statement which some parents would kill for hindered yours and your positivity got them past the doubters. Well great. Good for you. I hope your children don’t ever find that actually the statement would have been useful in the future. Perhaps read up on adults who have masked their difficulties to the point of a nervous breakdown, there are many. Personally I’m aiming for good mental health before anything else for my children.

Treeofwhispers even.

And really. Telling other parents of SEN children that they are all different. Really? Rather preaching to the converted.

Would I like a club which guaranteed my children were away from their neurotypical peers who treat them like shitfor an hour a week? Um yes, yes I would. If the easiest way to do this is to label it SEN, fine by me.

My animal loving DD with various SpLD would absolutely love this. An 'animal based nurture group' would be fantastic for her. Time away from the confident & articulate bunch with a small peer group would be fab.

I'm not convinced using goats as a way to get children with similar difficulties to open up would work all that well. I agree with a PP that perhaps animals should be the purpose with invited attendees. (Though I have heard about schemes that bring dogs into schools so strugglers can read to them.)

Wow that's so thoughtful - what a lovely idea. The world needs more people like you! Go for it!

You really aren’t coming across as compassionate more hey that pesky SEN statement which some parents would kill for hindered yours and your positivity got them past the doubters. Well great. Good for you. I hope your children don’t ever find that actually the statement would have been useful in the future. Perhaps read up on adults who have masked their difficulties to the point of a nervous breakdown, there are many. Personally I’m aiming for good mental health before anything else for my children.

Really? Your 'compassion' speaks volumes. It was attitudes like this that made my DC's time at Primary all the more difficult. Have you ever thought that there might actually be some schools that don't actually properly recognise children can not have any issues academically whilst still having a Statement of SEN.

My DC's academic abilities at the time were actively played down, not acknowledged. All that was focussed on was their difficulties.

How is that good for mental health?

I can tell you now it is soul destroying.

I know my child and they are very happy since their school now recognises their hard work and their achievements are clearly acknowledged. Which incidentally are their own, not mine!

Telling other parents of SEN children that they are all different. Really? Rather preaching to the converted.

Obviously not since some can't seem to stomach the possibility of someone overcoming additional needs they got a Statement of SEN for! If this narrative is simply unacceptable maybe you need to really think about how much diversity you are willing to accept!

I think the idea is a good one. However i agree pitching it is tricky. My son is a young carer but wont access any of the amazing stuff on offer because of the stigma of special needs. He has been on the recieving end of bullying about his brothers SEN. So goodness knows what happens to those with SEN. However other young carers love the young carer group. So people are all different.

I think it is a lovely idea. Dd1 had sen and was often unable to take part in the same activities as her friends.
I hope you are able to make it happen!

My initial thought is that a secondary school club for children with special needs caring for a goat, is every bullies dream fodder

I like the idea of a lunch time club - often dc with impairment/special educational needs can find themselves excluded (not always intentionally) in the playground - doing something proactive is bril. Would you consider (or are able particularly in winter) a drama type club? DD (Aspergers) got involved with a mixed ability (& welcoming inclusive etc) club - the beauty of that was it helped with communication & confidence - it does take a wise leader who can damp down the competitive bit while encouraging everybody to take part one way or another. (she loved it by the by) So you have one club (& you need to include those who have needs but no statement, I think) which is inclusive & supporting for all children - another which is geared for dc with sn. You possibly might include mainstream older/empathetic dc to help support & mix with sn (like the idea of PHAB social clubs?)

Treeofwhispers

I’ll very aware of the variations in SEN. In adults and children. That a diagnosis does not describe an individual. The fact that your children were not academically challenged due to a SEN statement is equally as concerning as those who are considered too academically able to have their SEN recognised and everything in between. The fact that your experience was that ditching the SEN statement helped success is hugely concerning. I’m also wondering what SEN goes away.

Some therapists for example use ABA to eliminate autistic behaviours. Except they don’t. They damage autistic people to the point of ensuring later breakdown but at the time it is hailed as a great success. Am I suggesting you did that? No. Do I know adults in that position - yes.

Quite frankly after over a decade of fighting to have my children’s needs recognised and appropriate help provided I’m tired. I’m tired of inclusion to the point of helping no one. I’m tired of my children being hurt by other children purely because they enjoy it or get a laugh out it. I’m tired of people saying they could try harder to overcome genuine issues just because on a very good day they can do something for a short time.

Perhaps less overcoming and more acceptance would be useful.

I think just from reading this thread we can see that every individual is different. My profoundly deaf son has no interest in speaking to other deaf people and is appalled when people try to sign to him, it doesn't mean he is not deaf. Like all these things it needs careful management. There will be students who benefit from this approach and inviting (not compelling) them to come along could be a positive experience for them but equally others will run a mile.

I think this is a really good idea. I know nothing of the practicalities but it can work very well. My son's secondary school does this. Pupils are notified individually and if they want to join, they can. They can turn up and see if it suits them - if it doesn't, they can leave.

They also have an inclusion pod where children can go to get a bit of respite from all the other children milling around. Again, not compulsory. If they don't want to be seen going there, they don't have to. Their choice.

You can't please all of the people all of the time OP.

It's such a tough one. There is already a club in place at our school for children with anxiety and depression (I don't want to go into detail as it could be 'outing'. There is already an LGBTQ group. I want something specifically for children with SN.

I've chosen goats because it's something I'm interested in. I dont know anything about how to run a drama club or other similar clubs..

The problem is, pink, the LGB group will have children turning up because this is how they identify.

I imagine if children who were believed to be gay were contacted they might object!

@geogteach that is a very strong point for students with ASD -as the variation of self perception of impairment & the desire to be integrated rather than set into a separate group - which is where a parallel mainstream inclusive ( & subtly supported group) club would work - as I mentioned earlier many students become more isolated in high school so an organised group could be really beneficial - but perhaps making a more directed invitation to some students that are socially isolated because of their disability but who don't want to be seen as needing support but want to make friends & be involved with mainstream students.

Think it's an amazing idea.
Most students with send need the option of a quiet time but all that's available is learning support or equivalent.
A smaller group of people who all have send is perfect.

I hope school go for it.

Goats are great. We've done animal assited family therapy which sounded fancy but it was playing with goats. Feeding, grooming, cleaning and we worked together to do a goat agility course, or to herd them to a place. It would encourage talking.

And maybe don't pitch it as club for children with SN.

I'd say you are offering an invite only club and then invite those children with send - especially those identified as needing support. You may find there's some very axioms withdrawn children who can also be extended an invitation?

The fact that your experience was that ditching the SEN statement helped success is hugely concerning. I’m also wondering what SEN goes away.

Well, my DC's Statement of SEN focussed on social and communication plus some gross and fine motor skills delays. The thing is with delays is that they are delays not necessarily deficiencies. My D.C. was pretty gifted, at school entry, in other areas which held their focus to the detriment of developing a more wider range of skills. As they mixed more with other children and participated in a wider range of activities they managed to make up for lost ground, so to speak, over the years. They received no diagnosis of an actual disability only certain delays and difficulties were noted. Their development was considered 'normal'.

Another school of thought may be that my D.C. never actually had any additional needs. We were persuaded to apply for the Statement by the school (it was quicker). Got significant individual funding which the school welcomed and it would seem 'clung onto' for a while. (cash cow was the phrase that came to mind). This did concern me.

What can I say? The system is pretty opaque. Thankfully we managed to get an outcome that suited us eventually, though.

I’m tired of people saying they could try harder to overcome genuine issues just because on a very good day they can do something for a short time

Yes, but you still need people to be honest. If I had lied and played up every difficulty there would be less funding for others. The system would potentially become more difficult as there would be less money available. My experience with my D.C. does not negate or invalidate your own or visa versa.

Added to this my experience was a few years ago. There was a more political angle to it. I actually read in my local government's school forum's meeting minutes that they had made the decision to delegate less per pupil funds to schools in order to keep more funds back to pay for Statements because there were more and more Statement applications. This lowered the threshold of the level of SEN that would be awarded a Statement in our authority at that time. The schools knew this and acted accordingly.