To set up a club at school for SEN children

[pinksparkleunicorns]

I am a teacher in a state secondary school. I would like to set up an extra-curricular club (either lunchtime or after school) which involves looking after a school pet (probably baby goats - we have approval to put some in the school paddock).

I want to run two clubs. One for any students but one which is only children with special needs.

AIBU to stipulate that one session is ONLY for SN children? It could be anything - from dyslexia to cerebral palsy and children from the deaf community.

I have a DC with special needs. My thoughts behind it are that it gives these children a chance to meet others with extra difficulties in life. To talk to them and share their stories. But I am worried that this could backfire? There will be the second session of the same club where anyone - SN or not can join.

Please can we avoid a thread where the well-being of the goats is discussed - we have a huge paddock and a local farmer who lives next door will oversee their upkeep so they will be very well looked after.

Could the sn group be 'invite only' rather than a named sn group. My sn dc would not go to a group labelled sn as he doesn't like the label but a group like this would help him. He once went on a holiday with other dc with disabilities and it really helped him to know that he wasn't the only one in his situation. Good luck and nice to hear such a story - there's to little in the way of after school clubs for mainstream school sn children who find they can't cope with the standard clubs. My sn dc has really missed out on this valuable social experiences compared to my non sn dc.

It's a nice idea ,But and I say this as a,parent of a,child with severe autism and learning disabilities ,that sometimes these clubs can be too broad so.you need to think about what you are offering can it meet the needs of all children that would be attending I mean a child with very high functioning autism will have very different needs to a child with autism and learning disabilities for example .

Problem is, it will take the kids approximately ten seconds to work out what the criteria is. That’s why I’m just not sure how you’d execute it.

@x2boys that's a very good point.

From this thread it appears that:

It's over all a good idea, if handled correctly.

I should Make it invite only. Carefully matching up children with similar SN, to ensure students get the most out of each session.

I should be subtle with this to ensure I do not embarrass any students who would not like their condition to be public news. Although it makes me sad that students may not want their needs known, (I very strongly believe our differences should be celebrated and the individual valued) I must respect that not all students are happy to be so open about their needs.

It will be tricky to execute this, but I am quite determined to provide this as a support for these students.

@Hollyivywillow but why would it matter if they can work out why they've been selected based on their additional need? I want the students to discuss their shared needs. It could be really valuable? Asking incase I've missed something.

Because a lot of pupils when they reach secondary age in particular may become embarrassed about their needs and rebel against things that notably mark them apart from their peers. And it’s not only those in the club who will work out what the purpose js

The trouble is the term SEN does not include one homogeneous group of children in terms of needs. Children's additional needs are diverse and will often conflict and compete with other children's additional needs. It's the reason why I think it is much better to focus on inclusion and diversity.

In primary my child had a Statement of SEN. Too often my D.C. was simply grouped with other children who had SEN although their needs were diverse and often conflicted. For example my D.C. was a very early reader and understood texts well since before school age. Yet my D.C. was put in a reading group with children who had significant reading difficulties. My child actually used to hide the reading books because they could not understand why, in juniors, they were given books labelled 'early years' and was ashamed of them. I knew it was because that group of children needs meant higher staffing levels were needed for them except sharing (my child's) allocated staffing resource did not work in terms of the individual children's differentiation needs.

Have you got particular experience that means you’d be able to run a club like this or world you be relying on support from other adults? You mention deaf children-are you a proficient signer?

How old would the children be?

I want the students to discuss their shared needs.
This sounds more like a therapy session than a fun club. You

Beautiful idea. But please call one of them Kevin. WARNING - clip is hilarious but contains swearing m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=yuwprXAaSv0

In my experience kids with additional needs just want to blend in. Drawing attention to this is embarrassing for them.

It’s a difficult one my Sen Dd wouldn’t have touched your group with a barge pole as wouldn’t have wanted to be seen as disabled different special but that’s a shame as she’s socially isolated without a friend in the world.

This is very interesting as it highlights the disparity between schools’ attitudes to inclusion and SEN.

My son has HF ASD and is currently very happy at primary, making friends and is in Y2. He’s fortunate in that he doesn’t have any intellectual impairment and his speech is excellent but socially he struggles.

Primary haven’t stopped him joining any clubs, they have a friendship club where any child who needs assistance with social interaction can go and the SENCO is very active at including children with SEN.

It makes me feel both sad and fortunate hearing some of the other experiences on this thread.

Regarding the OP:

Goats - AMAZING! That sounds so lovely.

I’d probably gauge interest across the school and make small mixed ability groups so there was no ‘othering’ as most children I know with SEN want to feel ‘normal’ and not constantly having to access special provisions.

Although it makes me sad that students may not want their needs known, (I very strongly believe our differences should be celebrated and the individual valued) I must respect that not all students are happy to be so open about their needs.

The reason for this is because there still is a lot of prejudice about. Even what you may view as positive discrimination is a discrimination of sorts. By giving prejudicial preference regarding club membership to children with SEN, the child is being judged primarily in terms of having SEN rather than as an individual with individual strengths and weaknesses (and needs). As I said children with SEN are not one homogeneous group. Additional needs are diverse.

You would be better emphasising the club is open to all children and that as a club you take inclusion seriously.

Secondary is very different to primary. As a parent of children with additional needs a lot of kids become significantly less inclusive at about 10.

Nurture club would be good, also to include mental health issues, children in difficult circumstances, anything which makes them an outlier. Daily duties with the animals would be brilliant for some children. Gives them a schedule, a responsibility and achievement.

I’m presuming there will be task based activities to mix up the kids?

@PurpleDaisies yes I am a qualified signer. Both makaton and BSL.

Age wise - I was thinking of signing students up for jobs in groups of 3. We have fairly matches needs across the school. So maybe one sixth former with dyslexia with younger dyslexic students. Similar for dyspraxia and autism. The students with hearing impairments could be with myself (our deaf community at school is limited to year 7).

I don't know about therapy though. I just was hoping the older students could give support to the younger ones? Like 'when I was your age I found this really helpful'.

The more I think about it though the less I think it will work. It will just have to be a generic goat club for all.

Children with SEN do want to be part of the general herd. Sadly regardless of school culture, ethos other children other them. It would be rather nice if there were spaces where the excluded were not forced to be with their excluders.

I dont see why not. In industry there are various minority groups and meetings and the overall aim of it is networking and support resulting in greater overall inclusion so i dont really see it as not inclusive

Secondary is very different to primary. As a parent of children with additional needs a lot of kids become significantly less inclusive at about 10.

I agree in that primary is very different to secondary. My D.C. had their Statement ceased towards the end of Primary and no longer requires additional support. They are much happier. They are achieving very well academically at Secondary. They've also made many more friends at Secondary and are much more enthusiastic about joining in with extra curricular activities! Whereas in Primary (it seemed like) having at Statement of SEN mainly served to 'other' them.

Even if it does end up with mixed sessions there’s nothing to say that sharing of experience won’t happen organically. It has the potential to be a brilliant activity for lots of children whatever their needs.
Dyslexia is a bit different from a physical or spoken communication/social need imo. There’s not likely to be any adjustment needed for animal care unless there were lots of written instructions, which would be unusual. But as PPs have said, the SENCO will be able to advise on groupings.

That’s wonderful for your children Trees.

Other children have a very different experience. A lot find secondary significantly harder. Those with social and communication difficulties find the gap widens year on year alongside adolescence bringing further challenges, particularly for girls. Sensory processing disorder and female puberty is not a happy combination.

'Inclusion' doesn't mean 'everyone gets the same stuff' and I'm a bit that pps have had a 'you can't do something for kids with ASN cos inclusion' on this thread. That's not how it works.

But to answer the OP: yes, lots of secondary school kids are very anti disclosing their needs/dxs but that doesn't mean the club isn't a good idea, especially if it's at lunchtime which is a time when many of them will struggle. You just have to word the invites carefully - don't follow the example of the well-meaning pupil sports ambassador in our school who invited 'kids who are different' to a session! Chat to your SENCO for advice maybe?

Also we need goat pics

Other children have a very different experience. A lot find secondary significantly harder. Those with social and communication difficulties find the gap widens year on year alongside adolescence bringing further challenges, particularly for girls. Sensory processing disorder and female puberty is not a happy combination.

And I'm sorry about that and appreciate some do have real difficulties. My point is really that additional needs are so diverse. You cannot make assumptions about another child based on another child's experiences.

The thing (IME) is the narrative you portray is one which is commonly highlighted. This is understandable as there are some shockingly traumatic experiences out there. However this narrative can, unfortunately, serve as a barrier to achievement in itself, if the narrative is not applicable to the individual. That narrative was repeated more than once to us by some whilst our child's strengths were actively being played down. It's a really good job we did not listen! Because if we had I truly believe my D.C. would not be where they are now!

'Inclusion' doesn't mean 'everyone gets the same stuff' and I'm a bit  that pps have had a 'you can't do something for kids with ASN cos inclusion' on this thread. That's not how it works.

Neither does it automatically group people together just because they happen to have some form of additional need. Additional needs are diverse. Strengths and weaknesses and diverse. People don't cease to be individuals because they have an additional need. People with additional needs can be as different from each other as they are to people without additional needs,

I think that your best bet is, rather than treat animals as a twice a week entertainment for a large group, to look at what the animals need first - regular care and attention. And, whilst you might not have planned it that way, give the animals the responsibility they need - ensuring that there is no way litter can be left or they can be fed inappropriate foods, see them daily, feed them, check their water and their enclosure (goats are bastards for a. Getting out of Fort Knox, b. Finding shit to eat that they shouldn't and eating it and c. Dealing with issues/perceived threats by meeting them head on - literally), cleaning them out.

It might be better for the goats if you had smaller groups each day, what with animals needing care daily. That way, you could pick children who would work well together and, rather than have 'the autistics' on Mondays and 'the normals' on Wednesday (and that is how a lot of the kids would interpret your lumping ones with particular SEN together), you actually look at their personalities and strengths. And if there are any children who don't see it as equivalent of going to Chess Club once a week and want to be there daily, whatever the box on SIMS says, welcome them with open arms.

To give an example, at my last place, there was a 'Social Skills' club that every kid with SEN had to go to. Which really didn't go down well with a couple who not only were extremely articulate, they didn't particularly enjoy being forced to stay with the same kids who were pissing them off in class and in the playground - particularly ones with ADHD, who they found incredibly difficult.

Put five kids with ADHD into a group and they could be bouncing around to rival the goats, rather than being calm and talking to each other about how hard it is to do their maths homework whilst simultaneously pissing off the ones who manage quite well with medication - and multiple diagnoses are common; what group do you shove the Autistic kid who also has ADHD? Some might have a huge problem with mess and smells, some might not give a shit about that where an animal is concerned. And then there are the kids who have physical/mobility difficulties - do you shove them in with kids who don't do taking turns or being calm and quiet, or do you decide they don't count as SEN, so don't get to come along unless the 'normal' ones are there to take over?

What about the more vulnerable kids who don't have a diagnosis?

It's not unreasonable to have the animals there (although the number of attacks on school animals worries the fuck out of me), but I think YABU to look on them purely in terms of being a means of putting children together to talk about stuff that's entirely unrelated to the animals.

The animals and their needs MUST come first.

Sounds brilliant. I agree with making it a invite only nurture type group rather than a special needs group. Also I don't know how many children would come but you need to remember that the children may well have very different additional needs and mixing them together may not work. We stopped going to a very lovely inclusive group because it just didn't work when you have 8 children in a sensory room, 5 are babies, one is an older child who isn't mobile, one is a 6 year old with learning difficulties who can walk but very unsteady and the other is a 5 year old who stims, makes loud noises etc. Really not a good combination. Now we stick to a group where there are different sessions for children with different needs and my ds can stim and rock with like minded children and I don't have to worry about him scaring someone who is there with their non disabled baby.