AIBU to remove DD from nursery?

[Midlandsmummy29]

My 3 year old DD started nursery attached to the local primary school. She’ll have two years there before starting school.

We’ve not had a great first impression. She doesn’t have a key worker as they are understaffed. On collecting her after her first day we were buzzed into the building but not one member of staff spoke to us. We wandered the room and couldn’t find her, told a member of staff and she muttered “she’ll be in here somewhere” whilst typing on her laptop keeping her eyes fixed to the screen. We could have been anyone, it didn’t feel very security conscious. After finding DD, we asked staff for feedback on her first day, the response was “yeah fine”- no other info, it was as if we were an inconvenience for asking.

I’m not expecting a detailed account but a quick indication of if she’d settled okay, had she eaten, played etc, but we got nothing. It’s not been much better on other days when collecting her- I asked if there was a handover process and was told no, I can ask questions on collection but they won’t give me any information unless I ask but they have parents evening once per year so can give me feedback then?!

The sessions last 5 hours and I was informed that apart from 20 minutes in a group, the rest is free play. The kids just seem to be wandering about lost.

The place doesn’t look very clean. They told me today that they thought DD had an allergic reaction but turned out her face was covered in berries- why not help clean it off? I know they are encouraging independence but why leave a child with a face so dirty they thought it was an allergic reaction?

To top it off, she’s been up half the night being sick.

We’re not new to nursery, DD attended one since 10 months old. We moved her here as it’s attached to the school she’ll be attending but she could do pre school at her old one. DH wants to remove her, I feel like we should give it a few weeks but this first impression has made me uncomfortable. WWYD?

I'd remove your child from the pre-school.

Apologies if this has already been asked but is the primary school attached to the pre-school a state school or private school? If it's a state school will your DD actually be guaranteed a place by attending the pre-school or will you still have to contend with catchment areas? Just thinking that it's not worth keeping DD at the pre-school in the 'hope' that she'll get a place in the primary school attached.

That's awful, take her out. My DD is in a pre-school attached to a school- 2 teachers, 1 TA for the class. We don't get handovers in the same way as nursery unless we ask which takes getting used to (but prepares us for school next year!) but we did on settling in week. There is a board outside the classroom with the days timetable on and they do a whole range of directed activities and then a little bit of free play, lots of outside exploring time etc.
The stained face/allergic reaction thing is really concerning. They thought she was having a reaction and did nothing?

School nurseries do have keyworkers! They have them throughout EYFS.

Take her out!
You aren’t guaranteed a school place if your kid attends the nursery attached (well at least you don’t round here), I wouldn’t even worry about friendships of 4/5 year olds!

I would remove her immediately. To act as if they don't know where your child is and aren't bothered would be enough for me.,

That sounds awful OP! I'd remove your daughter immediately.

@NakedAndAfraid

DH = Dear Husband
DD = Dear daughter

I get more information when I pick my dogs up from kennels. That says it all.

Take her out, hope her previous ones still had a place (doubtful if it’s good),

She’ll make local friends as soon as she starts school, they change friends loads it’s really not a big deal. Honest.

I woulda make an appointment to talk to them about your concerns. I’d its attached to the school, you could speak to the headteacher there. You are entitled to see lesson plans. Even free play needs to have some structure & guidance. If you are concerned about their safety and not satisfied with their responses, call ofsted.

drspouse is absolutely correct. School nurseries work under the same EYFS national regulatory framework as other nurseries, and it is a statutory requirement for every child to have a key worker (EYFS section 3.27).

There should also be a reasonable level of communication and good standards of hygiene and physical care, although EYFS is rather vague on the specifics.

I believe free play is of great value, but Ofsted and DofE have shifted the emphasis more and more toward adult-led learning in the early years.

I’ve never understood why, but school nurseries and reception classes do get away with far lower standards of care than PVI sector childcare/education providers. It’s worrying how this is becoming accepted as if it’s ok (such as the comments above that think it funny a parent might expect any better.)

There was another thread running recently in which reception class teachers were quite boldly stating how it was their job to take responsibility for wet children or wipe faces. It’s true that school nurseries and reception classes are allowed higher numbers of children per adult than PVI nurseries (although the ratios are sometime very similar in practice). But this isn’t so they can lower the standards; it’s supposed to be because the staff are better qualified and more capable, not an excuse to fall back on when they can’t cope.

Sorry, typo. That last paragraph should read "...teachers were quite boldly stating how it was NOT their job..." etc

Doesnt sound good at all. You said she'd have 2 years there so maybe they are more geared up for the older children where they are more independent??

Every child should have a key worker it's a requirement under the EYFS which to my knowledge does not contain the caveat "unless you are short staffed." If I were you my immediate question would be how they are maintaining correct adult to child ratios given those circumstances.

Just because they are attached to a school it doesn't make them great or automatically better than private day care. Some of these places are just hanging on the coat tails of the schools reputation. Ours certainly was! You tend to hang on in these situations simply because your child is getting to make friends with the children they will go to school with but Early Years should be so much more than that.

I wouldn't necessarily expect a full daily report with a pre school like you get with a nursery but the key worker should certainly be able to say if your child was settled, ate snack, enjoyed the painting etc when you pick up. In fact that's the least I'd expect.

Move if you aren't happy, your gut instincts will be right.

That is awful I would take her out. I'd be worried about her all day. 5 hours is a long time too if your not happy with the situation.

Will some of the kids in her old nursery not be attending the same school? Assuming it's roughly in the same area. Even if not she'll make friends at school.

I’d pull her out. We had a similar experience with my oldest son, big chaotic nursery, no key worker available. We toughed it out until one day we turned up to find him sitting alone in the corridor with everyone else outside, two locked doors away. They had forgotten him.

Kin ell! That must have been so upsetting

The security thing doesn’t sound great, but is there a camera so they can see who they’re buzzing in?
The handover, or lack of, is common once they hit 3, even at private nurseries. Most stop doing detailed handover sheets at 3.
Free play is normal and exactly how it should be. Would you want 3 year olds to do carpet time and structured learning? As long as there are interesting things set up and staff ensure children are engaged.
They should definelty have a key worker system but unfortunately a lot of school nurseries Dont.

Good god, she wouldn't be going back.

No way would I send her back.

Neither of mine went to attached school nursery, lots of kids didnt (rural villages surrounding primary school) never gave it a second thought.

The only reason I would move DS to a school nursery would be that I would expect it to be more like Reception in its structure and therefore prepare him for starting school. Maybe attending occasional assemblies etc. If they're not doing this, and you don't like it then there really is no point in keeping her there.

None of my DCs went to the school nursery, they all went to outside nurseries and on starting reception the were absolutely fine. The nursery they went to was very good and so they were used to mixing with lots of different children, taking turns, being polite, being confident etc all of which are great skills for getting on well with new children when starting school. When they start Reception they tend to hit it off instantly with other children whether or not they went to the school nursery.

In short, yes I would move her if you feel other nursery is better environment. Environment, encouragement, structure etc is far more important than trying to making friends in advance who she'd probably make friends with in the first few weeks or months of Reception anyway.

Imustbe right up until the last day of nursery for my DC, I was given a full printed run down of activities or outings (in detail), food eaten (or not), general mood and any particular events worth noting. It was only out of respect for the nursery staff that I very politely looked interested in the full daily report by the end of the nursery years but looking back it of course was very reassuring to know they kept a close eye on all the DCs during the day.

They also did parents evening twice a year and had bulging folders of DCs work/drawing/letter formation, EYFS charts showing what skills were achieved and what they were working towards, and photos of DCs doing all sorts of activities and learning skills.

No keyworker and no handover is normal for a school nursery, it's the difference between private and government run I'm afraid. The rest of it is concerning, especially their attitude to what they thought was an allergic reaction.

We moved countries just before both DDs started Reception (different countries, but British schools). Within a couple of weeks none of the kids remembered who had been at nursery with who, and the majority had been at the school nursery.

We've just moved back to UK... And the teachers took time to let me know the girls were settling in, even for DD1 in Yr4.

Nurseries/preschools vary in quality, private, school, community etc has no bearing on it. Sometimes you just have to trust your instincts if you think something isn't right.

Holy moly. I've only dealt with council/school nurseries. My experiences have been utterly, utterly different. Starting, especially, was a big deal. A great deal of care and attention taken to ensure my kids settled. Always a key worker, very kind, loving and caring, always there for a chat, always helpful and enormously engaged.

I would take her out and find somewhere better, you need to know your kid is being looked after.