IRISH issue but craicnet dead - immigration

[Minorityreports]

I've been involved in a facebook discussion about 130 immigrants to be housed in Ballinamore, Co. Leitrim. Locals have been protesting and holding overnight protests/vigils.

My initial reaction was you fucking bigots.

But now my reaction is actually, where the fuck are they putting these people - if anyone knows Leitrim, there is pretty much nothing there in the line of work (if these immigrants even have visas permitting them to work).

Could they not spread them out, in places where they might find work? I'm not sure of the status of the immigrants as their is no article, just a FB headline from a local radio station.

Thoughts anyone? Particularly if you actually know more about their status than I do.

Is housing 130 immigrants in one tiny village/town in the middle of fucking nowhere, a good idea?

Of course there has been migration since but the largest en masse emigration in Ireland ever was during the famine when over a million migrated. This what people usually refer to when they talk about the Irish migrants to the US etc.

I also am sickened by the Irish governments lack of action to bring the current Irish migrants home particularly the Irish nurses but that is another thread.

There is such an astounding level of ignorance from those who stayed regarding those who emigrated.

This from @scrappydappydoooooo made me so angry

''People always say that as if it's a really clever point but it's the exact opposite. Irish people in Ireland are the descendants of those who didn't immigrate despite the hellish conditions at home. They stayed through it and through staying they and their descendants were able to eventually fight off the oppression and over generations turn Ireland into one of the most prosperous nations on earth. If anything Irish people should be super anti-immigration because Irish people in Ireland are proof that staying it out and fighting for your homeland is eventually worth it.''

Did you ever stop to think @Scrappy that perhaps you were able to change things at home because of the money sent back by those who emigrated? The remittances were well known by the government and at times were larger than the education budget. You got to grow up Irish in Ireland. In small, localised communities who accepted you for who you were. The ones who left were strong and able and made that possible.

And their families had struggled through real hardships.
Your attitude disgusts me.

To to put a few people straight ..I actually only live a couple of miles away from Ballinamore, so am very aware of what's going on in this small town.

The PEACEFUL demonstration is most definitely NOT about being anti immigrants/asylum seekers - people are simply voicing very real concerns that facilities are just not here to accommodate such numbers. There is only 1 doctor / the national school and community college are pretty much full to capacity etc etc ...public transport almost none existent, as for many rural communities ...

The building/flats that are to be used to house these poor people - yes they were just standing empty, BUT when they were built originally, during the boom before the 2008 crash, it was not for this purpose in mind.

Residents of Ballinamore were invited to a public meeting, literally 2 weeks ago & told that this is what was happening - the deal had already been done. Nobody knew that this was planned until after the fact.

Irish people in Ireland are the descendants of those who didn't immigrate despite the hellish conditions at home. They stayed through it
The only person I've heard saying this is the Bull McCabe and we all know what he was like!

Irish people today often have parents who aren't Irish. In my son's school there are loads of children of immigrants.

I was about to ask about where are the children going to school whatthehec. How far is the next school and secondary school? How will they get there? What about SNAs?

Its 30 families so we can assume approx 60 children

I understand why people say that these immigrants should be re-homed in places where there is support and jobs and to a great extent agree. However, wouldn't that mean that rural areas never have immigrants so those people in society who aren't pro-immigration and who have the money to do so, move to rural areas and retain their anti-immigration stance because they dont ever associate with others from a different race?

I was shocked today to read that one of the contestants from 2019's TV programme, The Apprentice, was stated to have never spoken to a black person before. This could easily happen where rural areas of the kingdom are off-limits to immigrants.

@whatthehec
The apartment block was originally intended to house people - people who would presumably use schools, GPs etc., just like these people. So I repeat how come there were no protests then?

Wouldn't it make more sense for the protesters to picket to receive improved services?

@gwackywacky to be fair I've just read the articles and what the protesters have been saying and it's about 'not throwing these people into a concrete jungle' that there is a 'lack of facilities' and its 'community not compounds'. It looks to me as if the protestors are worried a lot of traumatised poor people are going to be left with no support for integration, school, healthcare and so on - I haven't seen one quote to the contrary.

When I say poor I don't mean monetary btw, I was expressing sympathy for their situation.

@ShiveringCoyote

I know in other dp centres the state provide buses to and from the schools. Whether the schools get extra teachers/SNA's/language support is a question I can't answer.

The majority of people in DP are single males. A third are children and they often have to share living spaces and sometimes bathrooms with these strangers. It is just wrong. Families should be housed either on their own or with other families.

I recall reading somewhere that the Irish government and Central bank were proposing to increase the population by 1m mainly by accepting refugees/ asylum seekers due to the low wages that businesses will be paying them.

Equally in Glasgow a number of years , a number of Iraqi refugees were housed (in the worst council flats, in the most deprived areas). Rumours went round that they were getting jobs, extra benefits, cars, vans etc - there were attacks - not sure about deaths. No information about the backgrounds, the truth or help assuring the local population that the falsehoods were that - false. When the 20 Syrian refugees were housed in Bute most of the local polulation were welcoming, but I think local authoriteies and the media are so afraid of racist actions they inpose a "Any Questioning is Racist and You Will Be Jailed" which stokes the flames.

I saw the programme about the family in Bute and it was heartwrenching - I wish them well.

I honestly don't think this is an immigration issue, it's an infrastructure one. We had similar protests in our small village about planning permission for a proposed new build development and the issue isn't where the people come from, it's who is going to mitigate the sudden extra demand on public services, schools, GPs etc in a place where things are already under strain.

@Quineofthe broch

'help assuring the local population that the falsehoods were that'

I really think we have underestimated how valuable this would be. We could counterbalance some of the horrible myths being perpetuated that affect such vulnerable people.

@Ziraphale

Would it be fair to call it an infrastructure problem that has immigration concerns wrapped around it in order to gain media attention and stoke up all sorts of tensions?

@gwackywacky
Wouldn't it make more sense for the protesters to picket to receive improved services?

I don't believe so. The horse would have already bolted. The government would do nothing once the direct provision is set up. They cannot force more GP's for example to move there.

This is supposed to be the DP centre in Achill Island. I have never been there but it looks remote. What are the people supposed to do all day with no car even if extra services were promised?

@gwackywacky to explain, as you don't seem to have much understanding of these situations ....there are loads of ghost estates around Ireland that were built during the boom, with no thought as to who was going to actually live there, especially in rural areas where work is very limited.

People generally move to an area where they can get jobs etc ...not many jobs here, hence this development has sat empty for all these years. Local residents quite often travel or move to the cities for work.

To move such numbers of people into a small town, with no prior preparation ie more doctors / teachers if needed etc, makes no sense at all.

Just to also mention, a few years ago a handful of asylum seeker families were housed in Ballinamore & this worked well because the existing facilities could meet demand. They were very welcomed & integrated well in to the community.

Yes it's the government’s failure to consult local communities that is being protested not the immigrants themselves. There aren't the facilities for a sudden influx of extra people with just a couple of weeks notice.

@saltandvinegararethebest Potentially yes, you could be right. I think some parties will always have an agenda and it's a hot button topic.

@scrappydappydoooooo

Agree and disagree with you.

Yes Irish people in Ireland are descendants but they were able to fight the oppression and built a prospere country with the money that was sent home: pounds and dollars earned abroad and sent home. So 2 way street here.

And now in Dublin anyway, you see those immigrants returning to homeland and bringing with them the technologies, competences and cash and that PLUS the hard work of the Irish who stayed is what is making this country great (in spite of the drinking culture).

So i think Irish people need to be very prudent in the way they manage immigration into their country (I am an immigrant to Ireland and will be asking for citizenship as soon as i can, but my kids are half Irish)

@whatthehec has it in a nutshell.
Lots of development went on during the Tiger years with money being thrown at developers and council planning depts. happily approving more or less everything that was put in front of them. When the crash came in 2008, lots of developers went bankrupt and all around rural Ireland there are still ghost estates in varying stages of completion.

Local people weren't consulted then and they aren't being consulted now.

Rural primary schools are often very small with just a few classrooms and mixed age groups so no separate dining hall or sports hall and in a small population of 900 people, a sudden influx of an extra 130 people is very significant. You can't put extra school desks into a room if there's no floor space.

How many of those 900 can speak a foreign language? How many of the existing population have adequate training and experience to adequately support immigrants who may not speak any English at all?

I don't think people understand this was a ghost estate, half built left empty for years.

Well when it was being built it was intended to house people wasn't it?

Minority yes probably but it's been idle for a long time. Theres no extra doctors or schools or infrastructure.