To not keep poxy child in isolation

[FromCuddleLand]

Hello! We are on half term this week. Every year we take our DC to London for a few days to do the sites. This is the first year that we have planed to take the youngest. He is mega excited. We've booked the hotel (2 rooms, non refundable) and purchased tickets for one of the venues in advance.
Last night I noticed youngest was starting to look a bit spotty. Today he is pretty pickled and it is obvious it is chicken pox. He is ok in himself, cheery and bouncing around. I know that he would not be allowed in school but do I really have to not take him anywhere? (as far as I understand you are contagious before the spots show anyway). I really really don't want to cancel our trip. Am I being an arsehole or is it ok to take him? (most things were going to are outdoors). BTW have NC for this but have been on here since 2011.

I didn't want my son to get CP before the vacation and we used vaccine.

But what none of you are grasping is that for anyone that it will be life threatening for, won't actually be walking about free to catch things. If the chicken pox was going to kill them, so would the flu or a common cold. For people that it may kill, their close relatives and people they live with are vaccinated because it could kill them catching it. If chicken pox was going to kill you, a doctor wouldn't advise you to be walking around in crowded areas. Like I said, for most immune compromised people, they've already had it and won't get it again. For the ones that haven't, unless they have literally no immune system (HIV, chemo, new born baby where the mother hasn't had it) they are the ones likely to die from the infection. It won't be life threatening for ALL immune compromised people, only the ones that haven't had it, aren't vaccinated and are severely ill, yes, seriously ill, not any auto immune disease. It will be really unpleasant if you're already ill but it won't kill you. This is why doctors and nurses are only vaccinated when they haven't had it in certain areas of hospitals because it's only life threatening for a select few and those people are likely to be seriously ill with aids or HIV, having chemotherapy and other serious conditions. Having anaemia or other blood disorders and things like that aren't going to make you threatened with life by catching chicken pox.

I had to have a hospital stay with shingles to get anti biotics by drip. I was allowed in most areas of the hospital but I wasn't allowed in certain parts. The reason for this is, it wouldn't kill Mary for example that was in with an illness but wasn't considered severely immune compromised. The NHS give examples of who is likely to become seriously ill by catching it and it's not all pregnant women and immune compromised people. It's just certain people. The same people that would be at high risk of death catching the flu or cold. It's so dramatic to say that someone with the chicken pox coming into contact with someone immune compromised but not seriously ill would die. They wouldn't. If you can freely go about life able to catch the cold, chicken pox won't kill you. It's the people who can't catch anything that it will kill. So while it's unpleasant and can cause complications for immune compromised people, unless they're very ill, it's unlikely to kill them or be considered life threatening and that's fact. People saying above that they work full time and are out and about but the OP could kill them letting her child out, don't be so silly. If you can catch the cold or flu virus and survive, you are unlikely to die from the chicken pox virus

@JenniferM1989

I have now said twice upthread that my immunosuppressed child on chemotherapy will be in a busy airport and on busy trains today. I know she is neutropenic.

You are absolutely wrong that vulnerable people are not walking about free to catch these bugs. She probably won’t die if she catches chicken pox but it will need admission and isolation and is potentially life threatening.

My late husband spent six months on chemotherapy, @JenniferM1989
He didn't stay in the house for all that time, and nor do other people with compromised immune systems. That's what YOU are not grasping.

@StopMakingATitOfUrselfNPissOff This is my new nightmare!

'But what none of you are grasping is that for anyone that it will be life threatening for, won't actually be walking about free to catch things.'

Where did you come to that conclusion? Never seen a woman going through chemo walking around wearing a headscarf? Also it's not just about coming directly into immunosuppressed people. These are people with children themselves, friends, nephews and nieces...it would be pertinent not to intentionally spread infectious diseases amongst the population in general because you can guarantee that infection will end up affecting someone who could really do without it.

@JenniferM1989

Also - a couple of other points

You were probably allowed in most areas of the hospital because shingles is not airborne so is only infectious if you come into contact with fluid from the blisters. Very different to chickenpox.

Also chicken pox vaccine is recommended for all health care workers who are not chicken pox immune

But what none of you are grasping is that for anyone that it will be life threatening for, won't actually be walking about free to catch things. JFC! Have you read a single comment from those who actually live as of with someone who is at risk? Just because you are repeating that bullshite, doesn’t make it true!

Sorry to hear that Chinateapot. I know not all people receiving chemo will be bed bound and not walking about but if the doctors think a virus would kill them, they would advise against integration until their immune system was stronger. Of course it can lead to complications but it's rarely fatal. It's actually more fatal in healthy people with only 11% of previously immune comprised people dying from it and 89% being healthy. This is because people that are ill take more precautions than people that are not. Septicaemia from open sores is the most common killer or bacterial meningitis in healthy people. I just think it's too much to say someone is potentially going to kill someone by going out when they almost totally wouldn't be killing anyone. It's always best to stay isolated during chicken pox and I've never said it isn't. I just don't think it's fair to say to the OP she could kill people with her choice. People with the cold and flu go out all the time. Flu kills way more people than chicken pox and so does the cold. I just think it's being made out to be worse than it is. People that go about with colds and flu don't get this kind of stick

Shingles is not airborne like chicken pox so that's why you were ok to not be in isolation. Healthy children/adults can still get very ill with chicken pox so it's not always mild

@JenniferM1989 I'm neutropenic, severely, my count can be virtually zero sometimes. Like people get on chemo? I'm not allowed to sit in a&e or my GP surgery
No neutrophils is about as immunocompromised as you can get

My dread when my husband was having chemotherapy was that he would come in contact with something like chicken pox. It was explained to us that midway between chemos, (which were every 3 weeks) his immunity would be so compromised that a virus or other simple contagious disease could be fatal to him. Make up your own mind as to whether your trip is more important than the risk your child poses to other people.

Surely DS wont be feeling himself anyway? Could you or DH go and take your other DC?.When we book hotels there are several now, and for quite a few years where you just book ,no deposit and can cancel up to the day before FFR .

It was the disseminated type and that is airborne

I was 18 when I caught chicken pox from the kids I babysat. I wasn't told they were ill, just told when I arrived that they were in bed already and wouldn't be down. Apparently the mum just wanted a night off from caring for them.

I was off school for months, very ill, hospitalised and am even (at 52) now pocked with small scars. I failed my A levels (pred: AAAA*, achieved BCFF) because I was too ill to revise and took the exams in a room on my own while I was still covered in stinking scabs. I lost my coveted place at UEA's English Department where I had applied (and been accepted at lower than my predicted grades) to study under Malcolm Bradbury. My school didn't do resits, so I had to go through UCAS clearing and ended up in the only place that would take me (one of the worst unis in the UK). It took me 15 years to catch up with my peers.

Not life threatening, but the selfishness of that woman - Barbara, I'm looking at you - had a massive impact on my life.

mortality in immunosuppressed patients is roughly 10% compared to 0.009% in healthy patients. Are you seriously telling me that a 10% risk of death isn’t enough to call it life threatening? Not to mention the risk of death from delay in treatment?

@JenniferM1989

Seriously? You don't think seriously immune Compromised and ill people are walking around?

Fuck me - ignorance like that is staggering. I can't even begin to describe how that makes me feel having had a child who died from cancer but tried so hard to live every moment through treatment. Ignorance like that could have shortened his already shortened life.

@JenniferM1989 as others have said, immunosuppressed people don’t stay at home all the time. My dd was one of these and we did our absolute upmost to protect her. We stayed at home in the winter, didnt take her to baby groups or to see friends when they were ill. BUT she died anyway. Of a virus (similar to a cold/ flu) and her death was entirely avoidable. The person who gave her the virus was a stupid friend who took the attitude of the OP and came to visit us when he had a virus (he didn’t tell us at the time). I will never ever forgive him.
OP, I know its a shame to miss the trip, but please consider postponing it.

I am horrified that a patient with disseminated shingles was allowed to walk around a hospital. Every hospital I’ve ever worked in would isolate patients with chickenpox / disseminated shingles. Example policy here www.rdehospital.nhs.uk/documents/policies/varicella-zoster-virus-chickenpox-shingles-policy.pdf

@minmooch

Me too. I am really upset by this attitude. Now sitting in an airport with my immunosuppressed child. No choice but to be here as we are flying for medical treatment (NHS funded and advised). We also need to fly again in 2 weeks.

Not getting at the OP who has clearly taken all of this on board and I hope her child feels better soon but......

I just hope no one who thinks this is ok is anywhere near me today.

From earlier post asked the head of the nursery who said that;

"they don't see it that often but when they do its like a batch of cases and then nothing for quite some time".

Maybe like the way outbreaks of Flu happen?. Related to a sort of herd immunity?.

I just said I know that seriously immune compromised people aren't always bed bound or stuck in hospital but if there's a chance chicken pox will kill you, there's a chance the cold and flu will as well. As a PP said, she was weary when her husband was having chemo due to all the simple illnesses that could be life threatening to him. But the life threatening part is limited to people with aids or HIV, chemo patients, people that have just donated or recieved organs, non immune pregnant women and newborns and people taking strong steroid treatments. That's the group that the NHS say are at risk of death, if they aren't already immune, from contracting chicken pox and it's the same with the cold and flu, those groups of people are seriously at risk with lots of groups of viruses and have to take precautions not to come into contact with any virus really.

People above were saying pregnant women and newborns and immune compromised people are at risk of death from coming into contact with the chicken pox virus and it's not true. If they are already immune from having it or the vaccine, there's no risk and the risk of death is very, very minimal unless you fall into that category and even then it's rare. You have way more chance of dying from the flu when you fall into that group that you do from chicken pox because most of us are immune from having it when younger where as the flu is something you can never be immune from. Vaccines help but not everyone gets them. So would you tell someone who was coughing and sputtering and potentially had the flu to stay inside for 10 days and say they were irresponsible and could kill a lot of people? Probably not. I just don't think it was right to accuse the OP of that. If you are immune compromised and have survived various winters with colds and flu, you are almost totally unlikely to die from chicken pox from either already being immune or having a strong enough immune system to beat the flu. The OP should be sensible and not take that risk but she wasn't actually considering doing something most of us haven't done already - go to work or out and about with a cold or flu. We've pretty much all done it or gone back before we're 100% well. It's not the people going about at the tail end of chicken pox killing people, it's the people with flu that are really causing the issues, hence the widespread vaccines for it but no one seems to be shouting at them saying they're potential murderers as they've most probably done it themselves.

So yeah, if you've got an auto immune disease but don't fall into that group, the chances of you dying from chicken pox, which you'd have to have not had before to even get infected, are very, very slim. I have an auto immune disease and I got disseminated shingles and was never at any point told it was life threatening to me or I could die. I think it's dramatic to come on threads and shout at people and point fingers and say they could kill you when that's not a fact or even a potential possibility. I'm just making the point that if you won't die or it won't be life threatening, to say it would be is just over the top and making someone feel awful for no reason. Her child could make you ill but her child wouldn't kill you. I commented further up to say what I thought in a way to say to the OP it was risky and she should keep her child indoors for a while but I decided to point out the facts when there was so many people seemingly not on the NHS risk group shouting about how the OP could kill them with her choice and saying they hate people like her when the fact they could die is barely a possibility if at all possible

My daughter can have - and has had - the flu vaccine because a killed vaccine is available. She can’t have the chicken pox vaccine. The flu vaccine isn’t 100% effective but at least it’s a start.

And I would also like people with flu to stay at home.

I live in a country with a different attitude to those things and here kids with chicken pox are allowed at the day care, school and in any other areas. It's seen as 'one of the things a child goes through' and nobody bats an eyelid if they see a pox-ed child in the wild ;)

@JenniferM1989 even if you had chickenpox as a child, and it was a very mild form, there is a possibility to get infected with it again as an adult.
Pregnant women can develop severe, potentially fatal complications such as pneumonia or pass the virus on to their fetus which can cause serious birth defects. Do you seriously think this is comparable to getting a cold/flu as a pregnant woman?