AIBU to want to scream about feeling so 'sandwiched?'

[thehorseandhisboy]

Long story short... my mum is elderly and lives by herself. I know she's lonely, although she's a difficult person so is hard to be 'friends' with. We have never had a great relationship, it got worse rather than better when I had children as she thought their function was to meet her unmet emotional needs rather than be independent people in their own right.

Despite the challenges, I've always kept a relationship with her and taken the children to visit or she's visited us - about 100 miles away but doable in a day. Her mobility problems have meant that she needs picking up and taking home if she visits now - fair enough, and we've done this as Xmas.

Children now 12 and 10 and really, really don't want to spend time with her. She's controlling, belittling, not interested in them as people, wants them to feel sorry for her etc. I see my role as protector of them and mediator.

I also have no desire to spend time with her, but do visit fairly regularly out of duty and family ties.

My mum wants us to visit for a day at half term. We can't during the week as the children are doing a sports thing that a. they like and b. I've paid for. They don't want to go at the weekend because it's a two hour drive each way and frankly depressing and boring when they get there. My mum is upset by this, which I understand and I do enforce a three line whip on visiting her on her birthday etc.

We had a similar situation a few months ago, and I went by myself to help her with a few things etc. She made it clear that this wasn't really good enough and wants us all (husband included) to go. The last time we did this, about a year ago, there was so much tension with the children messing around in the car, husband getting stressed etc that it honestly felt like we had reached a limit of what we could as a family unit put up with in terms of her unpleasantness, petty-mindedness etc.

I feel like I can't win. I could put a lot of pressure on the children go to, take bikes, scooters etc (she has nothing for them there) and try to push through their moaning about being bored and her moaning that they've come to visit her and aren't pleased about it.

I could go by myself but quite frankly between working, children, perimenopause etc I would quite like a rest at the weekend.

Or we don't go and kick a visit into the long grass. I try not to go in the winter as she deliberately turns her heating off when we go, and it's so utterly miserable, not to mention dangerous for her as she has CPOD.

Sibling lives the other side of the world, so it's down to me. And I feel utterly squashed, sandwiched and resentful about being expected to please everyone, but in reality it never being good enough.

Sorry, not very short! Can anyone empathise? How do you manage? Do I have it in me to do another force-children-and-grin-and-bear-it visit, which is so utterly draining?

Well I'd start with a polite reply saying that it will probably be too cold to spend the whole day, as for reasons known to herself she chooses to turn her heating off for your visits with the children. So let's wait until the weather is warmer shall we?

I think you need to take a harder line and be willing to detach and let her feel that.

She's a bitch - my granny was a bitch - being old, or a granny, doesn't mean folk need to suck up your deliberate nastiness.

OP she doesn't want you or the kids to actually enjoy the visit. Turning off the heating is a huge power play.

To the PP talking about respect, forcing kids to visit a miserable bitch doesn't teach them anything positive about boundaries.

Speaking of which, OP, if you must go to see her, set boundaries of your own. The heating must be on, you'll visit for (insert period of time) and no the kids are not coming as they're old enough to decide and you won't force the issue until you can be sure that visiting granny's won't be a freezing misery-fest for them.

Go by yourself as often or as infrequently as you feel you need to. If she wants visitors then she needs to be pleasant to them. If she complains that it's just you, put your coat on and tell her you don't want to be a disappointment on your own so it's best you leave.

Thanks for your replies, they're really helpful.

It was easier when her mobility was up to her visiting us, or going out somewhere when we went there. Her last visit at Christmas 2017 entailed three days of her moaning that the children didn't want to join her in watching 'Only Fools and Horses' at maximum volume, and the children and my husband moaning about her.

All to me. At which point I said - and meant - never again would we invite her for Xmas.

I'm erring on going by myself on Saturday as we've got plans to see friends on Sunday, and making vague excuses for the children eg piano lessons, seeing friends just because it's kinder than explaining all the reasons that they don't like spending time with her. I would do this if I thought that she would be able to reflect on it, but she won't, she'll experience it as an attack, feel victimised and no-one will be any better off.

Turning off the heating is indeed huge power play, and the reason that we didn't visit at all last winter. She tries to deny it - "Ohh, I was really warm, I didn't realise that you'd be cold, it's quite warm out" whilst her skin turns blue and she shivers.

I'm definitely through with that.

It’s so hard. She sounds like she’s her own worst enemy, but there’s nothing you can do about that.
Try and focus on yourself and your own family, it’s not through choice that I do, but survival
Hope it all works out for you.

You have my sympathies OP. My DM was a kind person who put up with my DGM even though she could be unpleasant and a total pain in the arse. Her other siblings went NC. And we hated visiting, she wasn’t interested in us, just gave lectures on topics that interested her or told us about her friends/neighbours children and how good they were at x,y and z. DM tried to explain to DGM how that wasn’t great for DM or us to hear but she either couldn’t or wouldn’t take anything on board. She complained about being lonely, but what can you do?

My grandmother was like this when I was growing up, so I understand how your kids feel. She was an extremely manipulative self-centred person. We visited her as a family once a year (she lived at the opposite end of the country). Eventually, when she was not mobile enough to cope without family support, my parents arranged for her to move into a house in their village. They did more than their duty. My mother, in particular, was amazing, because she had never received any kindness or generosity from my grandmother (her MiL). She was a huge burden on their lives and lived to a great age, but they feel they did the right thing and it allows them to enjoy their old age with peace of mind. I would bend over backwards for my parents because they are loving people, but I don't know that I could be so generous to someone so selfish. I admire them enormously though.

I hear how sandwiched you feel

You want your children to have a relationship she is not willing (or able) to offer! I feel your disappointment and how you feel obliged because she is your Mum!

It feels like she is trying to make you choose?

Of course there is no competition it will always be your children.

No easy answers from me, do what you feel happy with, encourage occasional visits with children (to support you & sort of show willing).
It is unlikely she will bot change so change how you see/deal with it

Some unpleasant things the kids have to deal with (school for example isn't always going to be somewhere they desperately want to attend) but other unpleasant things they can be shielded from.

Go to visit your mum alone. Turn up without them - sorry A had an important event / B had a party everyone is going to / they are ill... whatever. Dont give her your excuse in advance, dont tell her they aren't coming (so she can't guilt you into guilting them into going), just turn up alone. Then YOU suck up the visit. Same again next time. And the time after !!

No, I don't feel guilted into making my children feel guilty for not wanting to go. I told them a couple of years ago that I could completely understand why they didn't want to and, other than her birthday, I wouldn't try to persuade them to go. And if they really didn't want to go on her birthday, I would accept that.

Over the years, I've tried to shield them from her toxic elements (which are many) and enable them to access to her good (which sadly are few). I know that I've done the right thing by them and as well as I can do by her, but I still find the whole situation so sad.

My children have another grandma who they love and enjoy seeing, but she lives the other side of the country and won't visit us. Two absent grandfathers, and I feel sad that they don't and won't have the warm, close relationships with grandparents that their friends have.

Some support for us would have also been much appreciated when they were younger, but that's life!

Thanks for your kind words - they do help.

They have you. That’s enough, it really is. My dc’s grandparents are disinterested or worse. I wish it was different but I can’t change it.

Enjoy your weekend whatever you decide

Don't go lovely. She doesn't deserve it. Have a rest over half term and look after yourself. I wouldn't make my children visit, even on her birthday and I'd tell her why.

Being old and lonely doesn't cancel out years of bad behaviour.

Honestly OP, you sound tired and in need of a rest this mid term.

I wouldn't dream of insisting the children see someone they don't wish to see.

Put simply, it's her bad.

She isn't a positive influence and they don't wish to be in her company.

That's it really.

The heating thing is so nasty, you don't like her and she isn't pleasant.

I would drastically reduced the amount of visits.

FaceTime if you like briefly, but otherwise leave her to it.

Just because someone is related to you, does not mean you have to put up with this bull shit.

Give yourself a break, a rest from her and the mid term to relax.

My grandparents were difficult and my parents solved the problem by “treating granny and grandad to lunch out”. So we would go out for lunch (where much conversation could be had about whether to order the chicken or the duck and how delicious said duck was plus me and my brother found the grandparents much easier when enjoyed with our mouths full of “chocolate fudge cake and ice cream”) and then back to granny’s for a cup of tea and then “oooh - look at the time - we really must be going before it gets dark”.

The other trick my parents had was booking a weekend away somewhere we wanted to go and then dropping into grandparents on the way. Again nice and time limited and we were fine about it as we were going on holiday.

I had this growing up. I got a weekend job as young as i could so i couldn't be forced to attend. Now as an adult i have no relationship with them. They add nothing to my life.

I don't believe in forcing children to visit elderly relatives. I used to have to go and sit quietly while the adults talked, and basically had no actual relationship of my own with those people.
One thing to consider though, is your mother always sitting with the heating off because she is anxious about paying the bills? That was the case with my mum.

Every option makes someone unhappy. So, you have no win-win situation. Put yourself higher up the needing care ladder.

Children need happiness. You aren't going to force the children to go (good choice).

So she's going to have a go at you about that. If you don't go she will be annoyed too.

What will bring you personally greatest peace in the days that follow the visit / non-visit? I rather suspect it is not going, having a lovely time with the children yourself and getting the moaning in short blasts over the phone (not hours of disapproval in her presence on the Saturday).

Karma comes around.

Definitely don't take your children up. Pop up yourself and just be breezy "oh I never see them much these days either, they have more of a social life than I do" etc. No point in taking fractious almost teens up to a place where they're cold and bored.

I feel for you. I'm afraid I think you need to toughen up with her. I did with my parents. You are so used to meeting her emotional needs and not upsetting her that you lose sight of the fact it is entirely reasonable to meet others needs with equal priority.
It's OK to say: I know you want to see the children, so let's plan a day that everyone can enjoy. We'll collect you and go out for lunch at X or to see a film/exhibition etc and then go for a cup of tea and drop you off.
Make it clear that you will join her for fun family outings but not to sit pitying her in a chilly house You are allowed to set some boundaries and guidelines and you are allowed to be tactfully honest and make positive suggestions for improved visits. She isn't your dictator. (I speak from experience and had to teach myself to behave this way. It isn;t easy but if you don;t you end up so miserable and stressed.
The other thing is to not react at all if she complains or tries to manipulate everyone to feel guilty for having fun in a manner she doesn't fully control. If she complains, just cheerfully say, 'Ah well, the kids are having fun aren't they? That's the main thing.' Or just 'Ah well,' and change the subject. Sometimes I'm even wicked and play my dad at his own game by mirroring his behaviour. So if he launches into a pity party about his ailments I chip in quickly with a whine about my own or if he starts bitching about the neighbours I jump right in and bitch about fictitious ones of mine. It shuts him up and pisses him off.

I wouldn’t go. Don’t make excuses just say you are tired and don’t want to travel after such a busy week. Could you look into An air B and B nearby. There must be something to do nearby. So a fun trip for children And just pop in for short visit.

This sounds hard. Reminds me of my gm. She was never nice to my mum or interested in us. My mum managed by inviting others round if she came to stay eg for Christmas (she was always nicer if non family around), or going out for lunch if we visited (although she managed to get some critical/negative comments in still it was more limited)
I feel for my mum as an adult, we have a much more supportive relationship although she does suffer from low self esteem and can need a lot of emotional support.
I think my mum would have been happier if she had been a bit firmer and put more boundaries around contact with my gm, but there was this culture in her family of never challenging her and just sucking it up.
I think what I picked out of your op is that you are a mum of 2 kids, busy half term coming up and peri menopause symptoms and would quite like a rest at the weekend not a 2 hour round trip with odd jobs lined up when you get there.
I get tired at the weekend, the joys of the menopause haven’t hit yet but unfortunately I do have a limit to my energy.
I think it would be fine to honestly think about what you can cope with time and energy wise and offer up a few solutions to her eg she somehow comes to you (train/taxi), moves closer or you have skype contact.

1Littleweed no, her turning her heating off isn't because she can't afford it. It's the same house we lived in as children when we only had one open fire and it was freezing (we had no cash).

She now has central heating and she is relatively well off as she receives disability benefits on top of her state pension. Not much in absolute terms, but she thinks it's a fortune esp as she has very low outgoings.

She knows I hate being cold, and does it deliberately to annoy me when we visit - it's some sort of passive-aggressive freezing us out.

I feel concerned about her health - it's deteriorating quickly at her age - and do feel pity and compassion for her, despite her clear personality flaws. It's also sort of easier to do odd jobs when I go up there rather than pretend that we enjoy each other's company ifkwim.

Thinking that I might get a visit out of the way this weekend, then I'm done until the spring unless something drastic happens.

Skype I set her up with Skype some years ago and it worked perfectly well when I used it on her computer.

She has never managed to use it successfully when I'm not there. She's not very tech savvy, which isn't her fault of course, but I do wonder whether she's deliberately not working out how to use it because all she has to do is open it and press 'answer' when I call.

I might take my laptop up and have another go at that this weekend actually.

She is spiteful and controlling, and the more you tolerate this the more it will increase, it's a very difficult situation I think I would want to be blunt and tell her that I'm not putting up with any more nonsense
if she wants you to help her she will have to move closer to you