To wonder if these Bugsy Malone lines should be edited?

[stoopedandooped]

DS is playing the part of Smolsky in the school production of Bugsy Malone and has some lines to learn. Some of them are:

"You Irish potato head!"
"You dumb potato face Irish jerk!"
"I'm going to punch that stupid Irish nose right back to Tipperary"

Would it be unreasonable to suggest to the school that these lines could be construed as offensive and should be tweaked?

Going against the grain but I agree with you OP. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my child saying these lines.

Most people think Irish people are fair game is probably why, we're never supposed to be offended by anything. I will always wonder why using "potato" as an insult towards us is considered so hilarious considering a million people died and another million emigrated during the potato (not) famine. Can you imagine having a right old "lol" at the deaths of the jews during WWII

Well I don't think a school comedy would be including "funny" racist lines about black people.

Bugsy Malone is weird on all sorts of levels though.

Can you imagine having a right old "lol" at the deaths of the jews during WWII

/sings

Doubt be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the nazi party

I wouldn't feel comfortable with my child saying these lines.

Unless participation is mandatory, wouldn't you just choose for your child not to participate?

To all the people saying the op is being OTT, how would you feel if it was another group? Do you think a school production should include racist words?

I definitely see the point that it's meant to reflect the time when the play is set, but since it isn't in the West End, it's just a school production, do you not think those sorts of words maybe shouldn't be included?

I don't honestly know how I feel about it, but i do think anti-Irish jokes are just supposed to be laughed off and taken as a joke, when other groups wouldn't be expected to accept racist jokes.

easyandy101

A friend was far more concerned about her pre teen daughter having to sing alluringly.

Thing is, the police would have been racist towards Irish at the time. And Irish would have a racist toward Italian and Polish in that time. And everybody was racist towards the African Americans just like they are now.

It's not inaccurate and is in keeping directly with the character.

I think the 'Irish' should be removed.

We shouldn't be using, ethnic origins etc within insults.

I do agree that if it was any other group of people, the insults wouldn't stand, in their entirety.

Now there's a lot more honesty in what was once called the potato famine, now the Great Famine, it isn't a subject for jokes. People were deliberately starved to death, just as they was in the concentration canps.

steff13 I imagine participation is more or less mandatory if it's a primary school production? Usually all the kids take part.

Different for secondary (as I said in my previous post).

Another here against the grain. YANBU. If it was an adult production where the participants had an understanding of it being unacceptable IRL, maybe. But they are kids, and encouraging them to say things that are so unacceptable in this day and age is a bit irresponsible. Some will see it as acceptable because school said it was ok, and won't have the intellect or parenting to persuade otherwise.

And yes, I suspect racism towards Irish people isn't taken seriously.

Yes, there's definitely something weird about including words like this in a children's school play... totally different in a proper production.

I guess it depends how the school have framed it when they're getting the children to practice the play. They could even use it as a teaching point, like we would never use language like this, but they did back then. Maybe teach a bit about Irish and irish american history.

I'm presuming that they have taken out the fat Sam/knuckles conversations where they switch from Italian to Hebrew insults then? And the shooting each other, and the gang violence, etc etc

If it was insults in Irish that wouldn't be offensive at all. Normal insults in the irish language wouldn't be offensive. But "you big Irish potato head", in English, it is.

Fat Sam is Italian. Is Knuckles Jewish? Do they just insult each other in their own or each other's language, like me calling a Frenchman a big fool but on French? That is nothing like an English speaking American calling an Irishman a big Irish potato head.

I saw the film again recently for the first time since childhood and the thing that struck me as a bit more inappropriate was getting 12-year-old girls to act as seductive chorus girls in sexy burlesque outfits.

Actually youre right i think it exploits children in general just ban the whole thing

The way that tallulah sings is disgusting

@stoopedandooped As it happens my son's ( very posh ) prep school staged Bugsy Malone this year for the leavers play. On seeing the script my son told the teacher that he wouldn't feel comfortable being in a play with those lines.

When he was practicing his lines at home I noticed all the anti Irish line had been removed.
The teacher may well have removed them anyway.

As Irish parents we were very happy that they did , it's so much fun living in English since the Brexit vote ☹️, we would definitely return to Ireland or relocate to mainland Europe if my son had finished school.

They clearly took our sons feelings into considerations.. Some dreadful comments on here today , but par for the course in the current climate.

I saw the film again recently for the first time since childhood and the thing that struck me as a bit more inappropriate was getting 12-year-old girls to act as seductive chorus girls in sexy burlesque outfits

YY! I thought this too. Jody Foster must only be about 15 in that?

Most people think Irish people are fair game is probably why, we're never supposed to be offended by anything. I will always wonder why using "potato" as an insult towards us is considered so hilarious considering a million people died and another million emigrated during the potato (not) famine. Can you imagine having a right old "lol" at the deaths of the jews during WWII

Exactly.

I wish children threw these lines around! It should be encouraged! Far better that cunt, twat, spaz, fuck knob, joy stick, and letter opener...

It is perfectly possibly to be Irish and disabled, and subjected to slurs which are both anti-Irish and disablist.

Given that children are taught not make those sorts of insults, I'd take "Irish" out of the first two as they work fine as "kid" insults without (plus any watching adults will probably realise the Irish connection with McCluskeys name). McCluskeys idiocy & Smolskys rage are still evident.

I have no issue with the last line as there's a context - it's a big punch. That's not the only ethnicity based humour/scene setting in Bugsy though, so where are you drawing a line? The phone booth scenes have an Englishman saying something isn't cricket (a stereotype), there's a line played for laughs about Knuckles not speaking Italian because he's Jewish, the chinese laundry scene involves Sams Gang causing bother (although it's implied that it's because they're hoodlums not because they're racist) and Bugsy- the product of an Italian mother and an Irish father, is described as having "naturally grown up a little confused". There's also a line about "mad as a hatter, off his trolley" Looney Bugonzi from Chicago, Bangles gets her appearance ridiculed and Tallulah is a vamp.

Jody Foster must only be about 15 in that?
13 during filming

Yes, take 'Irish' out of it.

That's not the only ethnicity based humour/scene setting in Bugsy though, so where are you drawing a line? The phone booth scenes have an Englishman saying something isn't cricket (a stereotype), there's a line played for laughs about Knuckles not speaking Italian because he's Jewish, the chinese laundry scene involves Sams Gang causing bother (although it's implied that it's because they're hoodlums not because they're racist) and Bugsy- the product of an Italian mother and an Irish father, is described as having "naturally grown up a little confused". There's also a line about "mad as a hatter, off his trolley" Looney Bugonzi from Chicago, Bangles gets her appearance ridiculed and Tallulah is a vamp.

For me, I draw the line at anti Irish comments which imply that Irish people have a weird obsession with potatoes. A bit off colour don't you think, seeing as the Great Famine, known as the Potato Famine, involved huge numbers of people in Ireland being starved to death. It's like saying "oh you black people. You're so obsessed with being free from slavery. Feeedom lovers". Fucking disgraceful.

To compare an Englishman saying "it's not cricket" with that is...I was going to say laughable, but I'm not fucking laughing .

Jody Foster must only be about 15 in that?
13 during filming

Yuk.

Ffs