To think that nurses do very well financially actually

[Nurseybigbucks]

Hear me out.
I know that people are always going on about shitty nurses salary and how hard they work etc and believe me, I get that the job is often shit and getting shitter and they have to work hard, but I can't get behind them being low paid.

My DP has recently qualified as a nurse, she was lucky in that NHS paid for her degree, now that's stopped it does make a difference but this low pay nurse thing has been spouted for longer than it's been stopped.

She's just started her first job out of Uni on a salary of £30,000 for the NHS. This is above national average salary but closer to average in our area (London). She gets paid extra for night shifts and weekends or bank holidays so the total she'd earn would be around £35k in year 1.

There are not many jobs paying £35k in year one out of Uni, certainly not from courses that are so easy to access in terms of what you need to be accepted onto the courses.

And that's just for a basic (band 5) nurse. If you have something about you then you'll move up to a higher pay band within a couple of years max really and there are lots of higher paid jobs for the right personnel and LOTs of opportunity to upskill and earn more and LOTs of opportunity to work extra should you choose, with private work being particularly lucrative.

I earn around £50k in finance but expect to be the lower earner within 5 years or so.

Again, I get how hard they might work, but lots of people work hard and hard work vs pay is not a linear graph in any career.

I think that nurses are pretty well and fairly paid and they enjoy a fantastic pension if working in the NHS. So Mumsnet, AIBU?

They want to stay as a band 5 I get that but then they are choosing the low salary. If they are hoping to work up but are not able then I find it highly unlikely that they'd have earned more in a different career?

It sounds like there are a lot of very able people doing band 6 work for band 5 money. Very hard to say "not my job" and walk off when refusing to to it would mean that patients suffer.

There's something going wrong if you're in finance and don't expect to be out earning her MASSIVELY in 5 years

*Nurseybigbucks

If they want to stay as a band 5 I get that but then they are choosing the low salary. If they are hoping to work up but are not able then I find it highly unlikely that they'd have earned more in a different career?*

Did you actually read my first post? My DP (band 5 with shifts) takes home the same as a band 7 (without shifts). If you progress beyond band 5 the hours are less likely to be unsocial because they have to pay you too much. So senior charge nurses will work 7am-3pm, no nightshift, no shift allowance. And take home same as (or less than) a band 5 who does nights.

If a 6 or 7 comes up that he would enjoy, he'll apply. But where'e the incentive? Why become a prescriber and take on huge amounts of extra training and responsibility (and insurance costs) only to take home the same or less?

Weird hill to die on but ok

If she was single where do you think she could afford to live in London?

YANBU. It’s a matter of perspective I think. In my area the average salary is just £17k. A nurse starts on £24k right out of university, and even if they remain in a band five role permanently will top out at £30k. That’s not a poor salary by any stretch of the imagination and is above the national average.

It’s a

It’s a tough job in many nursing roles but it’s certainly not low paid, and I think most of the people saying it is haven’t actually looked at the publicly available agenda for change salary information. And I work for the NHS. We get paid very well compared to many sectors/workers. That’s not to say it isn’t well earned!

My neighbour is a secretary/admin in London earning £32k plus benefits. She didn’t get passed A levels, no degree, no responsibility of the type nurses have, no training debt. I’m not knocking her career path but it’s a very different commitment. When one considered the amount of expertise and responsibility required of nurses, shift patterns which are exhausting, let alone the pressure of the system, I’d say £30k is nothing (though I think the reality is less money for most nurses working in London).

Nurses earn every single penny. It is a tough, relentless job. Especially at the moment, my heart goes out to all of you out there. I let my PIN lapse in summer because I just couldn’t bear it anymore.

Alexa is right, promotion is a pipe dream in most Trusts. There is very little money for CPD.Travelling is the bands requires more training and education. Most B6’s in my (former) Trust require a MSc or if you’re very, very lucky they’ll fund you through your p/t masters ’on the job’ but those opportunities are becoming rarer and rarer.

Just as an example, I was working yesterday until late (9) was on call and called in at 5am and I'm still here. I've just sat down for my first break of the day & I anticipate being here until 6pm without another break. I have been qualified for almost 8 years and earn just over £30k per year. A band 5 wage range is £23k ish to £30k ish out of London.

Watching this thread with interest as DD is thinking about becoming a nurse, I think she’d be a great one but am concerned that she’ll end up stuck in a profession rife with issues, like teaching. In fact, one teacher I know is an ex-nurse so it must be that bad if she left nursing for teaching 🤣

Some trusts are excellent for promotion, I climbed from band four to band seven in four years.

But I’m with OP. Even s

Even without promotion a band five nursing job is a decent salary. Not many other sectors offer almost guaranteed annual pay rises for your first eight or so years in post.

I don't think band 5 nurses are badly paid especially with unsocial hours. In recent years they have had much larger pay rises, likely to try and encourage people into the profession. I do think that band 6 and 7 clinical nurses are not paid enough especially when you consider the responsibility they have. They are less likely to get unsocial hours and that makes a huge difference to wages. As a band 7 I had 24 hour responsibility for a ward but could come out with less than a band 5.

They want to stay as a band 5 I get that but then they are choosing the low salary. If they are hoping to work up but are not able then I find it highly unlikely that they'd have earned more in a different career?

It's not that easy, though. As you go up, you get more responsibility, less unsocial hours (some people prefer that, but 9-5 means you get no additional pay, so in essence is a cut) and more stress. Band 5 and junior Band 6 nurses are the ones generally rostered onto nights/bank holidays/weekends, so they can earn more than a 9-5 management type role.

My OH is a nurse and doesn't want to go past a band 5 role- it's way less clinical and much more stress!

Band 4 to band 7? band 4 isn’t a qualified nurse? So what do you do in the NHS that you can skip up the bands as it’s not nursing , unless you went off and did your training quickly?

Some non clinical/admin/managementy/PA posts can be up to a band 7 or above, I think.

OnTopOfTheWardrobe I know I was ju at interested in the PP mentioning on a thread about nursing pay how they skipped from band 4-7. So though maybe a administrator or business support ..... bit odd to compare themselves to degree trained nurses

You are so right Op. I mean a profession that is 40,000 short must be paying really well, and treating its staff so well.

The problem with the Original Post is that it's predicated on the assumption that Nurses ought to be grateful for not being paid total shit and having to go to food banks every week.

The subtext of it is that they (nurses) are paid a bit better now so ought to suck it up. Ditto other public sector workers. You aren't starving so that's progress. Boris loves you.

Teachers - you can't afford to buy houses and your job is unbelievably stressful but, y'know, you get long holidays.

My friend started on 23k. We worked out if I worked FT I’d only be on 2k a year less than her and I work in hospitality...

There is good reason they get paid unsocial hours, and that management struggle to cover those shifts.

Nights shifts and particularly the rotating shift patterns that a lot of front line NHS staff work, screw your body up over mid to long term, this includes memory, cognitive function, bowels, type 2 diabetes and possibly excerbates conditions like endometriosis and thus has an impact on fertility. What is an appropriate financial compensation for that?

Weekend work massively impacts on social life, relationships and family life. I was single and in a new area when I started work in the NHS, I was incredibly lonely for a long time! OP, I'm sure you will begin to find out how shift work can effect relationships soon!

Paid childcare simply doesn't exist for night shifts, weekend shifts or 12 hour+shifts, this particularly for women, can make the job untenable after having children. When staff do manage to keep working after kids it generally involves a huge amount of free childcare from extended family.

Grandparents are often the unrecognised unpaid workers keeping the NHS functioning, covering early early morning, and night time childcare.

Be careful when you count unsocial hours premium into your partners salary, it is a reimbursement for a lot hardship and suffering!

aweedropofsancerre

I’m not a nurse, I’m just sharing my experience of being employed at those bandings in the NHS as I’ve earned the same salary.

I work in mental health: started in a role that didn’t require a core profession (like nursing, speech therapist, social work or OT) at band four to get my foot in the door, but had a qualification in a core profession (not going to say which!). Then after six months found a role that did require the core profession, did that for a couple years then accepted a promotion which required studying full time for a year for a postgrad diploma while working. Band six while training and then band seven once I qualified in that specific therapy.

Our trust is fantastic at offering paid training opportunities to uplift staff, whether from a HCA to nursing or nursing to further qualifications in prescribing or becoming an ANP. Not saying all trusts are, but in my team alone there are several of us who took the above pathway. The others are all qualified nurses (I’m not, but had an equivalent profession).

But maybe the shortfall in staff is because of the reputation nursing has for paying badly. I hope that OP is trying to make the point that nursing is hard work but that it can offer good propspects and offer a well paid career. DD thought about medicine for a while but she never considered nursing as an alternative, maybe she should have.

My point was more that even as a band five the pay is pretty great, I didn’t pursue promotion because of needing more money, it was for my own professional development. Around my area a nurse earns far more than most can hope to earn even with a degree.