To think that nurses do very well financially actually

[Nurseybigbucks]

Hear me out.
I know that people are always going on about shitty nurses salary and how hard they work etc and believe me, I get that the job is often shit and getting shitter and they have to work hard, but I can't get behind them being low paid.

My DP has recently qualified as a nurse, she was lucky in that NHS paid for her degree, now that's stopped it does make a difference but this low pay nurse thing has been spouted for longer than it's been stopped.

She's just started her first job out of Uni on a salary of £30,000 for the NHS. This is above national average salary but closer to average in our area (London). She gets paid extra for night shifts and weekends or bank holidays so the total she'd earn would be around £35k in year 1.

There are not many jobs paying £35k in year one out of Uni, certainly not from courses that are so easy to access in terms of what you need to be accepted onto the courses.

And that's just for a basic (band 5) nurse. If you have something about you then you'll move up to a higher pay band within a couple of years max really and there are lots of higher paid jobs for the right personnel and LOTs of opportunity to upskill and earn more and LOTs of opportunity to work extra should you choose, with private work being particularly lucrative.

I earn around £50k in finance but expect to be the lower earner within 5 years or so.

Again, I get how hard they might work, but lots of people work hard and hard work vs pay is not a linear graph in any career.

I think that nurses are pretty well and fairly paid and they enjoy a fantastic pension if working in the NHS. So Mumsnet, AIBU?

My ex was earning £80k as a senior nurse

Not in the NHS they weren’t. Nobody at that level goes anywhere near a patient. To earn that kind of salary, you stop being a nurse and become a manager.

I’m a nurse, it’s ok as a second income. I wouldn’t want to rely on my salary as a main income though. I was a teaching assistant before so I do prefer my new salary and I earn more than I was expecting to.

She won't be getting 50k in 5 years!

In 1994 (25 years ago) my starting salary was £27k

That was 25 years ago. Starting salaries these days for graduates average around £20k, some as low as £15k or minimum wage. The days of graduates being able to walk out of Uni into relatively well paid jobs are long over even for the professions. Around my area, graduate trainee accountants are in the £15-£18k range.

I don't think Nurses are paid exceptionally well for the type of work/hours they do. However, when you compare their wage to a Veterinary Nurse wage (extremely similar role but different species), then the human nurse is indeed well paid.

I'm award sister I do acute paediatrics including critically ill it's really . I work 30 hours a week I take £1600 a month. I work 13 hour shifts its really hard work Im mentally and physically exhausting. Nurses no longer give bed baths or mop brows. It's a highly technical job, I have done lots of extra training, I have to make clinical decisions about children many of whom are exceedingly unwell, we check every drug dose a doctor prescribed if its the wrong dose and we don't notice we are the ones who get into trouble, we work with parents at what is often the most stressful times in their lives, we care for and advocate for our children and their families, often a part of a MDT. But I receive endless verbal abuse from parents and even children and I have been physically assaulted (punched pushed and kicked twice in the last three years), I manage complaints, I manage staff including appraisals 1:1 etc, I have to reregister with the NMC every year at £120 which I pay for myself I have to be in a union for third party ability insurance, my trust charges me to park everything I come to work except Xmas day and Boxing Day. I have duty to ensure my practice is up to date so attend regular training sessions, I give regular training sessions and I work from home in my spare time on quality improvement.
I've been nursing for 30+ years I believe in the NHS, and what we stand and what we do. I don't want to go onto a higher band and more pay because I want to have actual contact with the children.
Do I think I'm poorly paid I do for what I do? Yes I do my DH pays his staff who do a significantly less skilful and less stressful job more an hour.
There are more nurses leaving the profession than joining it. I believe there are 40 000 advertised vacancies its not going to get better its going to get worse and I get find the actual figure for how many are over 50 and heading for retirement but its very high basically more are leaving than joining this will impact on you and your family we are the person you are most likely to have the biggest amount of contact with if you're admitted to hospital. To quote from the Nuffield Trust into the staffing. crisis affecting the NHS "staffing is the make-or-break issue for the NHS in England".

But I can see why we aren't paid more, nurses salaries take up 10p in every pound the NHS spends, we are its biggest single expense. The NHS has no money and it is collapsing under the strain its affecting our patients of all ages and then this affects staff moral most of us want to do a good job but we are trying to do the impossible.

"a Veterinary Nurse wage (extremely similar role but different species),"
I don't wish to be rude here but I know a lot about veterinary nurses they are not doing the same job by any stretch of the imagination. As a horse owner and a regular customer at the equine vet hospital Im always surprised by how little a veterinary nurse is allowed to do.

I was always under the impression that nursing wages started off on a par with outher similar professionals (police/teaching etc) but don;t rise as quickly or to the same levels.

Of course, I could well be years out of date.

I was always under the impression that nursing wages started off on a par with outher similar professionals (police/teaching etc) but don;t rise as quickly or to the same levels.

I thought this as well. Can anyone post the nursing pay scale?

This is the teaching one. Many teachers now won’t make it into the Upper pay scale as there is not the money for it.

Maybe it’s the same in nursing-The pay scales look ok on paper, but in reality it is very hard for you to progress past a certain point due to funding?

The problem is that nurses start on band 5 there's loads of this jobs starting salary approximately 24K Outside of London around but the higher bands which obviously equate to more money (and more responsibility and hassle) there are less of them. So on most wards there will only be we have ward manager who is a band 7 starting salary approx £37 000 (outside of London) but loads of band 5s.
Secondly we no longer get and annual incremental increase you spend longer on each band.

I have been qualified for 13 years and am still a Band 5.....simply just because I have had 4 jobs in that time (to get a variety of experience) all of which were Band 5 roles, and also because I have had two lots of pregnancy/maternity leave and then reduced my hours.

When I was full time I did three 13 hour shifts a week, no nights, and would come out with about £1’800 a month take home pay.

I now work 25 hours by doing two 13 hour shifts, still no nights and come out with about £1’400 take home pay. I’m quite happy with that seeing as I only work two days a week.

Plus, we are very lucky in that we have Bank shifts we can do should we need some extra cash. If I did a full Sunday day shift for example, I would come out with about £350.

Some days at work are horrendous, we can be so busy and so short staffed that we consider ourselves lucky if we even get a chance to eat. I once started at 7.30am and didn’t get my lunch until 6pm. The job is exhausting, physically and mentally but we do it because we love it.

There probably are some upsides to the profession but the fact that there is such a huge shortage of nurses shows that it’s not an attractive option to many people.

[https://www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2019/03/25502.pdf here]] is our current pay structure.
Staff nurse who make up the majority of a ward staff well over 34 are band 5, senior staff nurse/sisters are band 6/7 and ward manager 7 (in my trust a DGH)

Next to each other as a comparison-similar I suppose.

@fedup21

Not nursing but paramedics (and other allied health professionals).

Start on bottom of band 5 (£24214) for 2 years whilst completing a portfolio/ competencies, then step across onto the bottom of band 6 (£30401), then start climbing that whilst working towards more skills (mostly referral and safe discharge to try and keep people out of hospital), after 6 years in the profession that puts them on £32525. Although this isn't entirely accurate as we are in the mist of an overly complicated pay deal.

So compared to the payscale (teaching?!) that you posted, £24k to £32500 in 6 years, Vs £23700 to £35k in 6 years. So NHS definitely worse off (there's a surprise!!).

£24k to £32500 in 6 years, Vs £23700 to £35k in 6 years.

That used to be fairly automatic and yes, theoretically achievable in 6 years, but it isn’t any more so you could be stuck at m3 if the school have not money so SLT decide you don’t go up an increment.

@fedup21

but it isn’t any more so you could be stuck at m3 if the school have not money

Makes a mockery out of having payscales in the first place!!

Technically in the NHS they can now stop you moving up the pay increments if you aren't meeting your learning objectives, but that assumes that you have had a personal development review, I've been in for 14 years and I'm still waiting for my first "annual" PDR!!

@tiredwardsister are you on band 6? I work less hours than you and only take home slightly less as a band 6 OT albeit at the top of my pay scale. Its always surprised me how many nursing jobs are band 5, and the level of responsibility at band 6. I don't think my job is anywhere near as stressful as yours but we're on the same grade

@Cyw2018
Not all allied health professionals jump to band 6 after 2 years unfortunately. I think that might be unique to paramedics. It's certainly not the case for my role as an AHP and not for the nurses I work with. I've had to work for almost 8 years to get to the top of band 5 which is currently £30kish per year.
I am mostly happy with my pay but I am part time & can do bank shifts if I need/want extra money.
I do think as a whole NHS staff (HCAs, nurses, AHPs, and also to a certain extent porters, cleaners, catering staff etc etc) are underpaid for the amount of knowledge, responsibility & risk they are expected to have on a day to day basis in their job.

@Cyw2018 we're meant to have 'protected time' for our reviews just as we're meant to have 'protected time' for 'mandatory training' but always get pulled off it as we're so short staffed!

.....we're meant to have 'protected time' for our reviews just as we're meant to have 'protected time' for 'mandatory training' but always get pulled off it as we're so short staffed!

On my ward we don’t even have face to face PDRs anymore. We have to fill in a form about we think we’ve met our objectives and what we want to achieve over the next 12 months and then it is emailed to the Band 6 who is responsible for our PDR. They read it, they add things on to the form about how we can meet our objectives and then they email it to the Manger.

I had my PDR a few months ago and not a single conversation took place between me, the Band 6 or the Manager. It’s crazy.

Our PDR’s used to be a 45-60 minute face to face discussion but now we just have to spend 10 minutes filling in an online form which we never get any feedback on.

It’s obvious this innovative idea came about with the idea that it would saves time, which is does, but that’s not a good thing