Does the child always come first ?

[nevermindimfine]

Based on a few threads I have read recently, AIBU to ask if parents should always put their child first? That seems to be the general consensus and for the most part I agree, however some of the scenarios seem somewhat unrealistic.
Scenario One
Parents have had a rough week, not spent much child free time together. One parent wants to watch a non-child friendly movie, have a drink and relax. Child wants to stay up, should child’s feelings be put first as they will be upset not to be included in the movie watching.
Scenario Two
Parent one cannot pick up child due to work commitments, Parent two cannot either due to work. Child does not want to be collected by friend or go to afterhours care. Parents should take leave from work as child will be upset if parent puts work first.
Scenario Three
Parents plan holiday, child does not want to go due to a recent disagreement with one parent. Child and the agreeable parent should go on holiday, therefore leaving other parent at home, so that the child knows the child is first.
Scenario Four
Parents should spend one on one time with child on a weekly basis, potentially one of the parents should ‘stay out of the way’ to allow child to have important time where attention is 100% devoted to them.
What would everyone do in those scenarios?

Based on update, you need family counselling, by ignoring the feelings of your DSS you are only storing up trouble for the future. You knew your DH had a child when you got together. This child needs love and attention from all the adults involved in his life. I recommend the book ‘10 days to a less defiant child.’ Ignore all the people on here banging on about ‘spoiling’ and ‘child ruling the roost’, more love and attention will defuse the bad feeling and aggression. Good luck OP.

10 is early for teens at the weekend????

I go to bed at 10 O'Clock every night and never stayed up past 10 as a teen living with my parents either. It isn't unreasonable to send a kid to bed at 10 Oclock even on the weekend!

Your update puts a different slant on things. Your DSS is not unreasonable asking for any of these things - the rules are different for non-resident kids who see their non-resident parent as little as your DSS does.

This sounds really tricky especially as you’ve known him since he was little (so not a teen reacting to a new relationship). Has the dynamic always been the same or has something changed?

It sounds like your dh's ex is the problem.

Your DSS is not unreasonable asking for any of these things
You think it's perfectly reasonable for a 13 year old to have a tantrum over his dad not walking out of a meeting to collect him from school? Give over! The basic rules of treating your parents with respect still applies to stepkids too.

Your problem here is the resentfulness of the mother which she is passing on to the child.
I very much agree with this. But at aged 13 I'm sure the SS thinks he is forming these thoughts and feelings all by himself.

I'd agree with the counselling statement but given the brief snapshot of the ex's behaviours I'd say she wouldn't agree to it. But I hate to say but if you continue with IVF and it is successful, a baby will most likely ramp up this behaviour because then 'baby' will be the new thing that your DH is putting before his son. The toxic behaviour from the ex needs to be addressed and stopped. He's already 13 I'd say it wont be long before it's too late.

Sounds like DSS is adept at manipulating all the adults in this situation so he gets his own way. Well on the way to becoming a selfish, entitled adult if this is not taken in hand.

There was a thread over on the step parenting board recently by a SM whose DH was being blackmailed and emotionally manipulated and abused by his 21 year old daughter. She had grown up in an environment where all she had to do was raise and eyebrow or twitch a pinky finger and her dad would do whatever and give whatever she wanted. She went NC for several years and the OPs DH near enough had a breakdown. Now she’s back demanding a no strings gift of thousands of pounds or she will go NC again.
Not saying this boy is like the “D”SD in that scenario at all. Just mentioning it because it made me think of that thread....

I think that I always meet my children's needs and put them first. However, that's needs, not wants.

My 3 year old chose not to eat her dinner last night. Fine, whatever. She later, right before bed said she was hungry and that she's like some biscuits please, before bed, so her tummy didn't rumble in the night.

She needed food, as she hadn't eaten. She wanted biscuits. What she got was a bowl of cereal and a yoghurt! Need fulfilled, want - not so much!

You can't pander to children's every bloody whim! Well you can, but they won't grow up to be very nice people if you do.

OP, if this is new-ish behaviour, keep in mind that boys particularly separate from the mother and need the father more at this age. After that it’s peer approval, and it doesn’t sound like the ex is helping much, but yeah, hormonal males aren’t always behaviourally delightful.

My stepson was a judgmental cock circa 13-15 yrs old. He’s now 20 and an absolute delight. My eldest has just turned 15 and slooowly leaving the utterly unbearable stage. Then there’s the soon 14-year-old who mostly grunts, withdraws, and generally gives zero fucks. It’s not a lovely age even though all three had marvellous qualities and were/are utterly lovable and delightful and pride-instilling in other ways, even during the tricky years.

I have developed spectacular zen-like qualities and insight while rearing teenagers.

Remember to keep your boundaries firm while taking his development into consideration—he’s growing up. And remember that if you don’t know why he’s behaving badly, he probably doesn’t either. He’s a child. Be the adult.

Ok so my answers do change a little because I was basing them on the child being at home with both parents and not splitting time between two homes.

1. I think it depends on how much time the child has spent with his father that week, if none until the Friday and then he's asked to leave the adults to it then I think that may be a little unfair, time with his father is limited. The way he'd see it is that he's been pushed out in favour of you. Now while I understand why from your update, even if he did know, you can't really expect a child to understand the emotional baggage that would come with that situation. In short if Friday was the first time he'd seen his dad all week then I think you should have made an allowance for that, however if child has been there all week then I think it was acceptable to ask him to go to bed at 10pm or otherwise amuse himself - not late (also not early for teen at weekend).

2. Answer the same, assuming no illness etc then tough quite frankly. From the update it sounds like mum was the one that was due to pick him up, and she was delayed. Dad was called upon but was also unavailable. This could happen in any family dynamic and at 13 a child should know shit happens sometimes and plans need to change.

3)If this was planned as a 'boys only' trip and now you're going too, child is not unreasonable to be upset by that. If this was planned as a family holiday to start with then child is being unreasonable and doesn't go.

4. It does look like the father is making time to spend with his son alone which is as it should be, however you shouldn't be expected to be absent every single time child has contact with his father. If time is set aside for one on one then I think that's reasonable.

I think you're probably being made the scapegoat here OP, in as much as at 13 the child is growing, developing and exhibiting teen behaviour and that's all being directed at you and your relationship with child's father is being blamed. If something major has happened between you and DSS to cause an issue, I think it needs to be ironed out fast to nip this resentment now because it will just get worse. And I think that you need to be the one to step back and work out how you can do that, because you're the adult.
There still need to be boundaries, because teens are experts and pushing them, and I don't think a step child should have everything their own way at everyone else's expense, because they are a step child. But things do need to be different and allowances made, time together because time is limited and the effect of living between two homes taken into account too. It's a fine balance, but then it is for any parents raising teens.
I was a step child, and I was pushed out and made to feel I was in the way and surplus to requirements. At the time I didn't understand that a lot of how I felt wasn't simply because I was a step child. My mum and dad have a lot to answer for, as do both my step parents, because no effort was made on any of their parts to ensure I didn't feel pushed out and my feelings were dismissed. However I can see things differently now I'm an adult and certainly some of my behaviour was unreasonable and I should have been (and was) pulled into line. It's a fine balance.

The phrase the child comes first means their needs come first, not their feelings. Putting your child’s feeling first every time is a sure fire way to screw them up for life.

I agree with @MyOtherProfile

Ok so the problem here is that (as is of course normal on Mumsnet) we are reading your interpretation of events.

Maybe the teenagers version would include lots more information about why they feel sad or let down by their dad.

If you want to resolve this as someone said I think you need family counselling.

For example. I sometimes get upset about family issues based on deep held hurts. That's normal in family life and it wouldn't always be obvious what was going on if someone didn't know that

It's too easy to come on and give a particular story ie being picked up from school..and make judgements. Maybe the kid has a different view of what happened or why they particularly hoped dad would turn up that day.

I think the child's needs have to be considered in all those scenarios:

1. Is it a good idea for the child to stay up after bedtime? If the child has also not seen the parents all week then yes, family time should be prioritised. If the child has done other fun stuff with family then it's probably better for them to just go to bed at bedtime as usual.

1. It's obviously in the child's best interest that their parent keeps their job and doesn't use up annual leave or take the mick with sick leave! So putting the child first means making sure there is a safe place for them to go to after-hours care.

1. Seriously? Reinforcing a division between a parent and child by having them not going on holiday together w

1. I'm pretty sure that most parents relish a bit of child-free time, and are not going to have to hide in the attic in order that their partner spends time with the kids.

All of these scenarios seem like total non-issues to me.

Our child comes last, I want him to see a happy mum and dad, I want him to respect adults, I want him to realise the world doesn't revolve around him and I definitely don't want him to be entitled.

In all those scenarios the parents would come first. Apart from the work one possibly, sometimes that is ok but I wouldn't make it a regular thing.

The holiday scenario, I would be cross if they even thought that going with one parent was an option, suck it up your parents booked and paid for it. Do they already have a sense of entitlement?

Thanks all - given me a good insight. Have agreed with therapy for a long time believe it's mostly being driven by ex but know that's having a terrible effect on DSS.
Last scenario.
(DSS has 1 set of GP's - my parents. Sees them at GP's)
They have been visiting from overseas. DSS has seen them for 3 days over a total of 6 weeks. His choice. He came to collect all the gifts, but hasn't seen them since. It's not our usual weekend to have DSS, they leave next weekend.
DSS wants to come over Friday (we had planned city drinks and dinner) not really teen friendly.
DH is out Saturday boys day with with dad
I have suggested Sunday - family, day dinner etc.
Apparently that isn't good enough he wants to be included in dinner or nothing (DSS and his mother)
Thoughts?

Honestly OP this sounds like a fucking mess and to be fair I don't think it is your DSS behind this behaviour. It sounds like his DM is being spiteful.

It is a mess of which we are constantly painted as the bad guys .....

There's needs to be some serious conversations had with the mother. She needs to be co-parenting. Not playing them off against each other.

Scenario 1, child stays up until normal bedtime. Child free time is what you do before having children or when they go to bed/school etc.

Scenario 2, at 13 they surely can go home alone so no issue.

Scenario 3, depends on the disagreements. I’d rather resolve that than worry about the holiday as to not want to spend time with a parent suggests something is wrong and that’s not good for either parent or child.

Scenario 4, one to one time with a parent is very good for a child. Even more so if families are blended as the adults chose who they live with and children don’t.

I wouldn't choose the child in any of those situations! If she wants to stay up, she can play with her toys or read. If she doesn't want to go to after school club and I have to work, tough, you have no choice. Child having a strop with a parent, you're the child, you don't determine where or when we go on holiday. If it's possible for parents to have one on one time with a child, then great, if it's not possible, they will just have to get on with it and understand that sometimes they aren't the most important person in the family just because they want to be in that moment. You'll have a very self entitled child if they got to dictate the first three points!

Why can't you adapt Friday's plans though, or him join the lads day on Saturday. You can hardly complain he has only seen them 3 times then exclude him. Agree his dm probably has much to answer for but also at 13 he will push boundaries.