Does the child always come first ?

[nevermindimfine]

Based on a few threads I have read recently, AIBU to ask if parents should always put their child first? That seems to be the general consensus and for the most part I agree, however some of the scenarios seem somewhat unrealistic.
Scenario One
Parents have had a rough week, not spent much child free time together. One parent wants to watch a non-child friendly movie, have a drink and relax. Child wants to stay up, should child’s feelings be put first as they will be upset not to be included in the movie watching.
Scenario Two
Parent one cannot pick up child due to work commitments, Parent two cannot either due to work. Child does not want to be collected by friend or go to afterhours care. Parents should take leave from work as child will be upset if parent puts work first.
Scenario Three
Parents plan holiday, child does not want to go due to a recent disagreement with one parent. Child and the agreeable parent should go on holiday, therefore leaving other parent at home, so that the child knows the child is first.
Scenario Four
Parents should spend one on one time with child on a weekly basis, potentially one of the parents should ‘stay out of the way’ to allow child to have important time where attention is 100% devoted to them.
What would everyone do in those scenarios?

Thought he/she would be about 8. Why does a 13 yo need organised childcare? However child free time becomes a luxury with teens as bedtime gets later.

This is quite unusual at 13, so either they have been getting away with ruling the roost for years or something major is going on for them, my 13 year old would really not want to stay and watch a film with mum and dad.

With the latter, maybe manipulative or some kind of anxiety etc.

The first two scenarios are wants, not needs. We can't always have what we want.

Senario three, if it's two biological parents, the child doesn't het to dictate. If there's an issue with a step parent then that's different, but needs to be worked out.

Senario four, teenagers need a level of attention and it's important to know your teen. So if that can be facilitated it's a good thing. But if they are biological parents then, unless one of them is very domineering etc, it may not be always possible. If a step parent situation, then, yes the child should get one-on-one time.

I said it on the other thread and I'll repeat it here, putting the child first to me just means considering the impact on the child. It does not mean doing exactly what the child wants everytime but does mean you think how your behaviour impacts them. All of those scenarios could come down to context. In the first one for example if the parents have been working till midnight every night and the child hasn't seen them for a week then he may very much have a need to spend time with them too and excluding him could be very damaging to his self esteem.

In scenario 1 I’d probably let the child stay up. It’s presumably a Friday night, we tend to do things as a family and wouldn’t send a child upstairs purely to be out of the way. There’s not much they can’t watch at 13 anyway.

2 and 3 are unrealistic, the parents have to work and the child has to go where the parents say.

4 is just silly. We can all spend time together, or if the child is with one parent there’s no reason the other can’t still be in the house or even in the same room. My mum often used to watch telly in the same room while I built Lego with my Dad on the dining table, I didn’t feel like that was a problem?

All the scenario sounds unrealistic. It's not putting child first, it's spoiling a child by letting the child rule the family.

As others have said, it isn't always about giving the child what he/she wants, it's about doing what's in their best interests.

So in scenario one, for example, you'd have to weigh up whether the child actually needed to go to bed and get some sleep or whether they'd benefit more from some time watching a movie with their parents. Personally, I wouldn't put them to bed just to get them out of the way for the parents' benefit, I think that would be quite mean.

Scenario two - it would depend. I certainly wouldn't put the parents' jobs at risk in any way because that wouldn't be good for anyone in the family, but if it was easy to take leave for an afternoon and wouldn't impact on work, I might consider it. To some extent, it would depend on why the child didn't want to go to their friend's house or whatever e.g. the "friend" might be bullying them or there might be some other reason.

Scenario three - difficult to imagine this one as my child would never refuse going on holiday for a trivial reason. If there was a serious issue (e.g. abuse) then it would obviously be much more than just the holiday at stake. If it was a minor issue, then I genuinely can't imagine it getting in the way of the holiday in any case.

Scenario four - if one on one time was really needed, wouldn't one parent just take the dc out somewhere or go to another part of the house?

I don't think parents should pander to a child's every whim at all. Kids have to learn that they aren't the centre of the universe and that other people have needs too. At the same time, I think parents should put the best interests of their children first, even when it's a bit inconvenient. Sometimes, it might be in the child's best interests to learn that something other than their preference needs to take priority, but adults shouldn't use that to justify decisions which are actually made for other reasons instead.

Is that child OK?
Mine was 13 yo not all that long ago, mine’s a girl, I would be tempted to stop and think for a moment, WHY is she exhibiting regresive behaviours?
At 13 I’m expecting her to understand the need for personal space/rest, mine would only watch Gilmore girls with me anyway.

We live in a city, she’s been making her own way to and from school for about 5 years now, at 13 I didn’t need wrap around care/afterschool etc. If she needed a lift, she’d take herself to a cafe and wait for me, or come to my work.
Holiday with one parent and not the other, yes, but her dad and I are not together. She’ll come in holiday with me, won’t go with her dad. Because his idea of a holiday is camping in the rain, I go to sunny places, in hotels with pools.

Anyway, what’s up with this kid? Is it bullying? Bad atmosphere at home? Why all the unhappiness?

Is there a step parent in this scenario?

I just think there are alot of indulged children these days. Really not sure this is great when they reach adulthood and get in the real world.
When I was a child forty years ago,holidays were based around where my parents wanted to go and there were no kid clubs. Lots of days bored going round galleries and cathedrals.
Also,parents would sometimes go to a pub and leave sister and I in the car with a panda pop and pack of crisps.
Mum would muck out horses early in the morning and sis and I sat on the fence for an hour,waiting ,in all weathers.
I've turned out fine!

I do everything I can for my DC and treat them but wont indulge

1. It depends on how much family time has been spent together recently for me. If none then I'd be suggesting something the family can watch together. However if the child has had parents running around all week after them, going to activities etc then no, the child goes to bed at normal time and the parents relax together. If the child has spent a lot of time alone then I think a family thing is better.

2. The child needs to realise that not everything can be dropped just because they want it to be and they themselves at 13 need to compromise for the good of the family as a unit. They might not want to be picked up by someone else, or go to after school club but the parents shouldn't be taking leave for this unless there's something underlying like illness.

3. At 13 if the child doesn't want to go, and suitable arrangements for care can be made then the parents go and the child doesn't. A child shouldn't be dictating that an adult who's likely paying for the holiday doesn't go because they've fallen out over something. They either suck it up and get on with the parent or don't go.

4. I don't think one parent should need to stay out of the way for anything. One on one time with each parent is probably a good idea but not if it's used to push a non favoured (and probably the disciplinarian parent) out.

If this is one child it seems to me like the child has one parent who's very accomodating and does whatever the child wants regardless of how it affects anyone else, and one parent who is a bit stricter. All those scenarios except 3 strike me as a way of the child trying to get around rules imposed by the stricter parent by emotionally manipulating the other one to push them out.
It'll result in a child that doesn't know how to compromise and doesn't think they need to because they've always had everything their own way, never had to work through conflict and never had to see someone else's pov. Not great traits for anyone really.

For a 13 year old

Scenario One

I think this is trickier. Lots of 13 year olds will be up late so I think in general, it must be harder to have space in the evenings. I would probably try and include them in this scenario, especially if I’d been working all week and not seen them much.

Scenario Two
Parent will clearly not be taking leave. At 13, the child can either go with the friend or make their own way home like many others do. But, you don’t say if this is a regular thing or a one-off because they’re super upset about something or ill etc.

Scenario Three

All 3 would be going on holiday and child needs to suck it up as they are being ridiculous.
Scenario Four
No issue with 1;1 time.

My child is my world. I'd do anything for them. They are the sole reason I go to work and live where we live. but he does not rule the roost. DH and I make decisions in his best interest and even if that means he is crying and stomping his feet... Tough!

Did this happen in real life? What was your stance on it? How old is the child in question?

With us this kind of behaviour wont work. Children are children and still not mature enough to make sensible decision all the times. It's our responsibility as parents to guide them and help them make good choices. And no their needs don't trump other people's wants and needs which seems to be happening in these scenarios. Children wont learn to adapt if their wants are always put first. I do believe in induldging the child but not at the expense of others.

1- Parents need time to themselves and with each other too. Child had whole day with parents, now it's their turn. Child can either go to sleep in their room or read a book till they want to sleep but they stay in their room.

2- Child needs to be told that both parents are working hard to give them a good life, food on his table and roof on his head. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for that. They will be explained the reasons but not given the choice.

3- This is bloody ridiculous. Depends on whose fault it was I would ask both of them to have a heart to heart but no way one parents would stay behind...just like we wont leave a child behind. Children don't get to decide who goes on the holiday. They are not the one paying for it.

4- Pfft. We spend time as family, with each other. Given that we only have one and yes the child does get to spend time with us alone too still we wont make the other parent step out just to make the child feel special.

There's definitely a difference between putting them first and them taking the p*ss, if my child grew up in any of those scenarios expecting to get their own way with them I'd be mortified 🙈

Just saw the age of the child. TBH the child is behaving like a brat and whichever parent is indulging them is not doing them any favours in the long run. This child wont learn to compromise and will have difficulty when things don't go their way.

Is one of the parents a step-parent?

I wouldn’t send a 13 year old to bed, why not let them watch the film too and feel included? You’d just be sitting in silence while watching it anyway so what difference does it make?

If the child is displaying problematic behaviour due to feeling excluded then I’d try to get to the root of that.

Child sounds like they rule the roost! Needs and wants are completely different things, spoilt brat springs to mind!

Ok thank you this has been really helpful.
So I'll ask the same Q's again.
(But for context ..... DH had a child from ONS, but never in a relationship. I met DH shortly after. Been together/married ever since. I've had the role of DSM since child was a baby.)
Scenario one.
3rd failed round of IVF, (child unaware of IVF) DSS felt his dad didn't put him first after he was asked to go to bed at 10pm after his movie of choice, because we were staying up.
Scenario two.
DSS refusing to see DH because he didn't walk out of a meeting to pick him up from school, because his mum got stuck at work.
He puts work first.
Scenario three.
He blames me for his parents not being together. His mum is refusing to let him come on holiday unless it's 'a boys only trip'
Scenario four.
DSS gets one evening, one Saturday morning, plus boys weekend away twice a year - solely one on one time. But apparently durning every visit to our home I shouldn't be present.
What would you do in these scenarios...... I understand hormones are everywhere, but is this normal ?

Ok so the child clearly resents you which is the actual problem.

His mom and dad need to have a proper conversation with him and explain why they're not together.
He's old enough to understand.

Scenario 3 is his moms issue. Is she a single parent/can she afford to take him away? Is she just jealous?

Scenario 4 - is that him or his mom saying that?

Are these only recent issues?

Scenario one and two he is being a brat at 13 he can understand that work sometimes comes first and that after having watched his film of choice adults are allowed to have time after he is in bed.

Scenario three his mum is the issue - has she always been like this about holidays as it seems strange since you have been in DSS life since he was a baby.

Scenario four some time during his contact with Dad doing something just the two of them is fine but he can't expect you not to be around at all - again he is being bratish.

The only bit I feel you yabu is the movie because of Ivf. 10 is pretty early for teens at weekend it's not his fault you feel shit .the holiday fine leave him with his mum maybe his dad could take him out all day Saturday every other week .but the rest his mum sounds like she is still a bit angry and it's reflecteing on his behaviour but hardly your fault

The 'child first' advice I have seen on here usually refers to parents who are in new relationships that appear to be prioritised over the child's welfare. I think that is the way it should be.
The above examples are not welfare issues at all, so no need for a child-first approach. As a SW I will say that the martyrs parents who are constantly child first over very trivial issues such as child choosing film every time are doing a disservice to their children. They grow up with very little resilience, low self esteem, arrogant and unable to see past the end of their nose

Agreed.

I do know a few families where the parents always kowtow to the kids in this sort of manner. The parents are very tiresome, and the kids are awful, ghastly brats, that no one wants to hang around.

The update changes everything. DSS is clearly resentful of you and his mum is angry that you’re with DH because she feels it prevented her getting with him. The mum doesn’t want you going on holiday with her child and no doubt is pushing the idea that you shouldn’t be present when he’s with his dad. It sounds like she wants DSS to have no contact with you. DSS is merely picking up the ideas his mum has pushed onto him.

Your problem here is the resentfulness of the mother which she is passing on to the child. DH needs to get involved and address her attitude towards you. She needs to be told that you’re his wife and a permanent fixture, it’s not your fault they’re not together, he won’t be pandering to her ideas that you shouldn’t be around DSS, and she needs to start behaving appropriately and stop poisoning DSS against you.