NHS piss takers. Selfish, self absorbed people

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Without going into specifics, I work in a clinic and see people by appointment. They have an allocated time slot ranging from 10 minutes to 40 minutes depending on what I’m seeing them for. Since I started this job I’ve become amazed and frustrated with how many people think it’s fine to stroll in late. Sometimes upto 30 minutes late and still expect to be seen. Once they’re 10 minutes late we can mark them as non attenders but half the time, they stroll in after that time and get at the receptionists about how they “must” be seen - the receptionists then come to us panicking and we end up seeing them to keep the peace. These people don’t give a shit that their behaviour puts the clinic way behind, makes other people’s waiting times much longer, causes staff to be off late ... and half the time they don’t even have an excuse for being late! We get “sorry, I forgot” or “sorry, I got talking in the shop” or even “sorry, I didn’t want to get up this morning! Hehe”

It’s a joke. What makes it even worse is when they stroll in late, check in and then bugger off to go to toilet or get a drink! You’re already 20 minutes late ffs! At least get a shift on once you’re here!!

AIBU to literally refuse to see people once their 10 minutes late thing is up? It would make me unpopular with both patients and staff but I’m sick of the piss taking. I’m sick of getting home late because people can’t be arsed to turn up on time.

I wouldn’t dream of strolling into an appointment 10 minutes late, why do people think this is ok??

Or should I be more tolerant?

Btw the clinic is not mental health related or urgent care.

No show stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, a very large one. NHS appointment systems and related admin are a complete shambles. I could list several examples. Just one is that I was sent 7 appointments. I could not get through on the given number to discuss it and cancel 6. So I emailed and wrote with no reply. I attended one of them then told the receptionist about the other 6. She could find no record. Then I got 6 no show letters.

Similar with my GP. You can only get an appointment in 3 weeks, and only if you go in to make the appointment, and you might be better by then. But try to cancel an appointment and you can't get through on the phone.

The flip side is people fail to attend, leaving the practitioner twiddly their thumbs, the powers that be decide to overbook the clinics to avoid any thumb twiddling, and expect that there will be people who fail to attend.

people take longer than their allotted time.
these are just two reasons for waiting for clinics.

My dentist charges/boots people off the books if they are persistently late or cancelling at short notice. They do use discretion though, which I think is really important.

My hairdresser makes people pay in full upfront when they book if they are late or cancel multiple times. It’s an Aveda salon, not sure if that’s a nationwide policy, but I bet it works!

Agree if over 10 mins they have lost the chance to be seen. On the flipside i dont think i have ever been seen on time at gp or dentist, sometimes sitting there an hour after my appointment time, very frustrating.

The dentist has all these posters up saying if you dont attend your appointment they will fine you £20 for 20min appointment and £40 for 40min appointment. However when you are sitting ther 1hr after your time you just have to be good and behave and not complain

If mornings are such a nightmare for Sharon she should avoid morning appointments

Sharon might not have had a choice with the appointment time. In some places it's this is your only slot that you can have or try again for an appointment next week as we are (always) fully booked.

God, I hear you OP. I used to be a GP receptionist and imagine the 40 min appts you mention could be for chronic illness eg Diabetes annual reviews or similar. Used to make me really angry when people would miss these 40 min appts or be late over and over for no good reason, when our nurse waiting times were around a month.

The travel appts were the worst though. 20 mins per family member and has to be a month before you travel. People wouldn't turn up, wasting 80 mins of appts sometimes, then it would be too close to their holiday to rebook, then they'd scream and shout after we directed them to a private travel clinic for their vaccs. Yes, they are expensive privately but IMO should be the first thing to go in an overstretched NHS budget.

Your colleagues shouldn't give you grief for this. I used to respect the doctors and nurses who'd turn latecomers away, even if it made my job easier when they'd see them. Contributes to HCP burnout, and makes clinics run later for people who are there on time.

And I was a v nice receptionist btw; spent hours tracking down pharmacies to find one who had a worried patient's medication in stock, liaised with secondary care on behalf on vulnerable/ elderly patients etc etc. But when you work on the frontline, you just see the most unbelievable amount of pisstakers.

*Maybe the answer is for everyone to get taxis even if they drive?

It's a £40 round trip for to get a taxi to the hospital for us...and actually because the hospital site gets gridlocked theres no guarantee its going to get you there on time either. And not everyone can walk from the nearest off site drop off point.

@BoneyBackJefferson The thing is, one of the reasons clinics run late is latecomers. So in order to try and run on time for everyone a zero (or close to) tolerance would be more efficient.

Where other reasons for late running of clinics are in play there are (and should be) complaints procedures. I don’t agree with fining clients who are late and I don’t agree with compensating people for clinics running late. Money is not the issue here. But both NHS and the general public need to be held accountable for things they could do differently to optimise service provision.

I don’t understand it either. My twins both have consultants, but one of them has five seperate consultants. We’ve been late twice - once when we had two appointments in one day and the first was running two hours behind and we had to race across town to another hospital. Once when one of the lifts in the multi storey was broken and I was stranded with disabled twins in a double buggy on the sixth floor and had no option but to wait ages for the one lift to finally get up to us.

Both occasions I’ve called to let them know we are on our way and running 10 mins or so late. I completely understand how disruptive lateness is. I am mortified if we are ever late for appointments.

There’s really no excuse unless something really unexpected happens (eg stuck behind a traffic accident, transport cancelled etc - but then if I’m going by bus or train I make sure to get one that allows for delays rather than one that turns up just in time).

I think it’s fair enough to refuse to see people who are late without good reason but would make exceptions for genuine cases. There was one time I had to go to another city for a pre-op - the train cost me £50, then it broke down and I paid for a taxi from the station where we broke down to the hospital (which cost £65). I called to let them know and they weren’t sure if they’d be able to fit me in but thankfully they could and I was really grateful.

There’s a sign up at my local hospital eye department saying that if you’re more than 10 mins late you’ll be rescheduled to another day. I think it’s fair enough.

No show stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, a very large one.

I agree. I once phoned to cancel and rearrange a GP appt for my son. When I went to the later, re-arranged one, the GP gave me a rollicking for failing to attend the earlier one. Then she was very shame faced when I said I'd rung to cancel it in the same phone call where I made the one I was at! Why would I want two appointments for the same son, in the same week?

Same with hospital appointments where, a few times, I've received an appointment letter either on the day of the appt itself or the day after. Isn't it common sense to put a first class stamp on a letter posted just a couple of days before the appointment?

And my OH has annual diabetic eye tests - same happens every year, they send an appointment for a random time in a random location (never the one he actually goes to), so we have to phone to rearrange - it can take many, many attempts to phone them - they never answer the phone whatever time of day, always goes to answerphone, and then it's pot-luck whether anyone bothers to phone back, so we have to keep leaving messages until someone does, often it gets very close to the appt time, and once the appt came and went without them getting back to us.

Oh I forgot one spectacular time when we drove an hour to see a specialist in the nearest city hospital, arrived at the hospital to the biggest queue of cars you’ve ever seen and a sign on the road saying that from this point it’s about a 60 minute wait to get into the car park. The hospital are just screwing themselves up there really. And of course once DT2 and I abandoned the car in a panic and let DH park up with DT1, we got into the clinic to find it was running 2 hours late (hardly surprising when your patients can’t get in!).

golfumbrella

I've had appointment letters sent to me dated the day before the appointment and arriving after the appointment was due to happen - why not telephone the patient in that instance? Guess I was recorded as a DNA.

I've also had 2 appointments cancelled by the hospital followed by a letter stating that as I've now cancelled 2 appointments, and in line with their policy, they are discharging me and I'll need to get my GP to refer me again! For appointments that they cancelled. I had to complain to PALS in the end to get that sorted out.

If you look at what patients are enduring within the NHS is it any wonder that some are now becoming a bit more lax as regards turning up on time? It isn't right and if I were using the service only occasionally I would be more hard line about it but being in the unfortunate position of needing to use it regularly (though glad it's there) the cock ups and delays are mind blowing. So much of my time is spent waiting around for appointments, time that I could spend at work but can't because I have to allow so much travel time and waiting around once I'm there time.

I would not see patients that are more than 15 minutes late unless there is a valid excuse like entry into the building OR they are an urgent case

The thing is it is not only an inconvenience for you it is a massive waste of tax payers money and prevalent in the NHS which is free at the point of access. If people were paying to see a specialist they would be on time and time costs money

I would bring in a policy stating intended consequences of lateness
And I would stick to it

You will end up saving the NHS money

And its not that they wont get seen it they wont get seen that day ....

YANBU OP.

I hate being late for appointments so you'd never get me kicking off in reception if I was ever late.
In fact three weeks ago in the midst of chaos (dramas with autistic son) I rocked up to my 10.05am dental appointment only to discover my poor dentist had been twiddling his thumbs for 45 mins as my appointment was in fact 09.05am! I felt dreadful and couldn't apologise enough. The very last thing I'd have done is kick off and insist on being seen.

The above is extremely rare for me though ...in fact I can only remember one occasion when I did similar...got the wrong week for a GP appointment.

Mistakes happen occasionally but you apologise profusely when it happens. You don't start being abusive.

This is why we can't book online at the surgery I attend any more - because of idiots who book and then don't turn up or come late.
This. The NHS is seen as a free service, so is not respected as it should be.

Unfortunately, if you're always kept waiting for a long time, it is very tempting to turn up a bit later to save waiting. I don't, but know a few people who do.

SinkGirl

I had exactly the same. Large hospital with lots of parking. Arrived an hour early for my appointment to find approach to hospital just blocked solid. Turns out they had shut the multi story car park that day for some reason. I was on my own so had to stay with the car until.i could find a space and was late for my appointment. Now if I attend that hospital I have to take someone with me who can park the car if I need to abandon it.

It's ridiculous.

Some people will not turn up because the letter informing them of their appointment has arrived after the date and time of the appointment. You can’t turn up for something you know nothing about.

That, surely, is a communication and secretarial issue. It happened to a friend last week.

I think part of the problem is people don’t leave enough time for unexpected things. We always Aim to arrive at Ds many appointments 30 minutes before the appointment time to allow time for parking and any other delays. Before he had his blue badge I would leave longer for parking knowing how hard it could be.

Of course sometimes things can’t be planned for but I think planning to arrive “bang on time” can often backfire

YANBU

What it boils down to is how much they want/need the appointment. If they can't be bothered to turn up then you don't see them. People need to leave ample time to get to these appointments, but because it's seen as "free" people become entitled and don't think of others.

Also can't believe people are defending Sharon in this scenario, she may be a single mum trying to get 3 kids to school before a 10am appointment, however she should consider all other alternatives. Is there a breakfast club? Could they go in with a friend? Could a grandparent walk them? She could phone and ask for a half 10 appointment instead as I'm sure they are booked well in advance if people are forgetting. Could Sharon get a lift from someone if she was relying on public transport?

Whatever the circumstances isn't the problem of the clinic/staff/other patients and people need to weigh up their circumstances and allow time for things to go wrong.

If you finish at 4pm you shouldn't be there much beyond that. There's no consideration of where you may need to be and on time for outside if your working day. People not thinking about their actions means that you may end up late to pick your kids up or with a parking fine and worse, others may have caring responsibilities etc, why should that be compromised because someone got talking in the shop even though they are the ones that need the treatment. If it was chargeable people wouldn't do it. Absolutely make them wait and then tell them if they can realistically be seen. Are you paid for your time beyond 4pm?

I have the opposite experience as an NHS A+E nurse. People show up and then complain because they havent been seen by a doctor in an hour or two (EVERYONE gets seen by a nurse on arrival and triaged, the more sick ones get pulled forward).

People can even check what the wait time is online.

I honestly think people just expect conveniance. So they should be allowed to show up late because its conveniant for them. They should be seen quickly because its convenient.

I also think that attitude is a symptom of modern society. 90 year old Arthur comes to A+E with a book as he knows itll be a longish wait. Hes also not late to appointments. 25 year old Katy expects to be seen when its good for her.

It irritates me.

Is there any way you could add to their appointment letter that unless they contact you at least 10 mins before their appointment to let you know they're running late then there appointment will go to the next person in line and they will be seen when there's time later?

Eg if Mary is due a 20 min appointment at 10am, if she calls at 9.45 saying she's sorry, she's on a bus that's running late and will be a bit late then you'll fit her in asap when she's there.

No phone call with a decent reason, if they're not there on time then whoever is next goes in soon as they arrive, and the next and so on until there is a 20 minute 'break' before the next appointment time. Even if they have to wait all day. Means people who are early and on time are seen but not held up by those wandering in whenever suits them.

In the last few years I've unfortunately had to go to a number of different medical appointments in different places. Each one necessitates taking time off work. Every single time I am kept waiting.

I always allow loads of time for everything so I am generally really early. I had a GP appointment that I ended up waiting 45 minutes to be seen, on top of the 15 mins I'd already spent as I was early. Work didn't believe it had taken that long (& assumed I'd sneaked off to an interview - not unknown at my place of work). So I booked the next time for the first appointment of the day. GP arrived 30 minutes late because of trouble on the motorway .

The attitude from the NHS is always one of you should be grateful for free treatment so you can just wait. I don't know whether they've stopped it now but I've often been to clinics (ante natal was the worst) where they give everyone the same time and expect you to just sit there indefinitely.

As others have said, if you are elderly Doris it probably makes no difference to you whether you are at clinic or at home. If on the other hand you have taken an hour out of work, or left your small children with friends you are probably fretting about how long you've been waiting. Not to mention that you've only paid for 2 hours in the car park for your 15 minute appointment and you are conscious that it's just going to run out.

It works both ways.

Also a lot of people rely on taxis and if its an appointment around rush hour time or just after they are often late. Even if you say it has to be a 8am or whatever.

So if someone is late, does that mean that you sometimes are left with an appointment slot & no one to see?

I think you can only get on your high horse about patients being late if you can guarantee that you will never keep them waiting. I have a lot of medical appointments and it's very rare indeed that I am not kept waiting past my appointment time, often for quite long periods. My GP surgery has snotty notices up about patients not being seen if they arrive late, but I have never been seen on time there - last time I arrived on time and waited over an hour past my appointment time.