NHS piss takers. Selfish, self absorbed people

[ThornsWithin]

Without going into specifics, I work in a clinic and see people by appointment. They have an allocated time slot ranging from 10 minutes to 40 minutes depending on what I’m seeing them for. Since I started this job I’ve become amazed and frustrated with how many people think it’s fine to stroll in late. Sometimes upto 30 minutes late and still expect to be seen. Once they’re 10 minutes late we can mark them as non attenders but half the time, they stroll in after that time and get at the receptionists about how they “must” be seen - the receptionists then come to us panicking and we end up seeing them to keep the peace. These people don’t give a shit that their behaviour puts the clinic way behind, makes other people’s waiting times much longer, causes staff to be off late ... and half the time they don’t even have an excuse for being late! We get “sorry, I forgot” or “sorry, I got talking in the shop” or even “sorry, I didn’t want to get up this morning! Hehe”

It’s a joke. What makes it even worse is when they stroll in late, check in and then bugger off to go to toilet or get a drink! You’re already 20 minutes late ffs! At least get a shift on once you’re here!!

AIBU to literally refuse to see people once their 10 minutes late thing is up? It would make me unpopular with both patients and staff but I’m sick of the piss taking. I’m sick of getting home late because people can’t be arsed to turn up on time.

I wouldn’t dream of strolling into an appointment 10 minutes late, why do people think this is ok??

Or should I be more tolerant?

Btw the clinic is not mental health related or urgent care.

Yes it’s annoying and frustrating.

Selfish, entitled, self absorbed with no interest or idea about the outside world or the impact their behaviour has on numerous other people.

It’s annoying at first but then begins to impact on the way that you do your job, I ended up leaving a similar role because I couldn’t stand another minute of these people breathing the same air as me.

I honestly thought that my own BP was through the roof with anger for 90% of my working day and that just isn’t healthy.

Do you have any input into appointment letters?

If so i would add something in bold and a larger font saying 'patients who are late or miss appointments cause delays for staff and other patients and cost the NHS / department x a year / month. Due to increasing numbers of late patients we are now implementing a policy of cancelling any appointments where the patient is more than 10 minutes late. Any patient who is more than 10 minutes late will have to rebook their appointment, and waiting times are currently x.

Then you can use your discretion to see people who are genuinely held up eg if you know there has been a road accident nearby.

Finally, the biggest problem at our local hospital is parking - I set off an hour early for a 10 minute journey, just because I know it will take that long to park. Even then, there is not always a space, because they are forever building on the car parks - and as it’s in the suburb of another town, public transport would take all day!

I think you would be within your rights not to see them but

I regularly behave to attend a hospital that is 30 miles away and means I have to take 2 trains to get there. It should take me about an hour to get there if all goes well. I always allow at least 2 hours just in case (which means that I have to take a days leave from work everytime). The trains have problems at least 50% of the time, often.part way through the journey, so 1st train.on time and then signal failure or something causing closure or severe delays for the 2nd train and this sometimes eats into my contingency time. I've been late twice now out of about 50 appointments so I've started allowing 3 hours to get there. I hate being late but if people are travelling long distances how much extra time should they reasonably leave?

Really often, I arrive in clinic to find they are 1 - 1.5 hours late and I've seen patients have to.leave without being seen because they've got to get back for work or childcare. If you are refusing to see patients who arrive more than 10.minutes late be prepared for them to complain bitterly if the clinic isn't running on time.

Where there is a genuine excuse I would still see them. The problem is, there rarely is a proper excuse. It’s always “my alarm didn’t go off” (for a 12pm appointment) or “I got talking and lost track of time”.

I understand the frustration for you.

But on the other side, I am always early for my appointments. Yet I have to wait up to an hour after my appointment time to be seen because everything is running late, or I've even had it a few times where the receptionist screwed up actually booking me in even after giving them my notes and speaking to them!

Swings and roundabouts.

I think that it really depends on circumstances. Does it really make any difference to you if someone is 12 mins late, but due to surgery overun they would have had to wait 30 mins in the waiting room if they had got there on time? Are you going to take it out on someone who is 11 mins late, but had left with loads of time to spare to find that there is really heavy traffic that day it it took 3 times as long to get to you as normal? Obviously there are always some people who take the piss, but that doesn't apply to everyone.

I think my doctors and dentists do similar. My train was delayed one day and I called the dentist to explain and said I thought I'd be around 15 min late and why and they still cancelled and rebooked the appointment

Well, society is breaking down. Nobody gives a shit about anything and there are never any consequences.

You could provide consequences by not seeing them, but it’s too late. They’ve been through an education system where you can tell the teacher to fuck off when they give you detention. And the teacher is powerless.

No idea what the answer is.

Say Sharons 20 minute appointment is 10am. She strolls in at 10:15am. Mavis is due in at 10:20 but actually arrives at 10:10am. I think it’s fair to take Mavis in early. Sharon is too late.

I take patients in order of booking but first come first served once someone is late. So I would have taken Mavis in early. I’d probably still see Sharon because im soft but I’d ask reception to explain to her she will have to wait as she missed her slot.

Our local hospital has parking issues so I get there an hour early to make sure I’m not late. I realise not everyone can do this but lots just don’t bother. I also accept that this probably doesn’t help the parking problem as im in a space longer than I need to be. There’s no obvious right answer.

The only time my clinics run late is when I’ve been guilt tripped into taking in a patient who arrived 30 minutes late for a 40 minute appointment.

Patients should turn up on time. Equally so should doctors, nurses and all other hcps. I have been kept waiting far more often by the nhs, and not only due to a patient emergency, than any other service with which I have ever engaged.

Example: maternity apt - kept waiting 40 mins with a full bladder because they couldn't find the key.

One stop breast clinic. Sent 8.30 am apt and not seen until 9.55 because nurses don't start before 9 to set up clinics and consultant was late.

Orthopaedic outpatients - arrived 20 mins early to be yelled at for disappearing with my notes. Then kept waiting for more than an hour.

Phlebotomy. Sign said 40 min wait. After and hr and 10 mins went to desk. Phlebitomy's nothing to do with us. Then realised people had been waiting for three hours.

That's the tip of the iceberg op.

Seriously do you not see that respect for time works two ways and the public are so used to the nhs being late, often because they are downright sloppy, and failing to communicate delays despite being seen and heard squawking about personal stuff, that people aren't punctual because there is so much experience if services being late and there being v little cognizance of the inconvenience the other way round.

Last time Inhad a dr's apt for 7.30pm arrived tonfindna notice on the door saying gp sick and session closed. No comminication. No apology.

Honestly op taking into account how the nhs messes patients around I don't think it's surprising and I don't think you can complain or cause patients detriment.

I am sorry if you are an exception to the rule and feel there os a lack of respect. I know just how you feel.

Just to add that I attended a clinic last week. Appointment 10am, there on time. Seen 11:45. No it was not due to emergencies etc because there were 5 consultants (same specialty) trying to get through a bulging room of patients. They were all there working. The booking system was obviously shit.

I’d put a big notice up as well as adding a rider to the appointment letter re not being seen if late by 10 minutes or more. Receptionist can point at it and be obdurate. Then there’s no arguing. Bog standard ‘It’s the rule’. Tough.

On the flip side, to your young/old issue. Perhaps Mavis has nothing else going on in her life so getting to one appointment on time when it’s the only item on her schedule that week and hospital transport is picking her up from home and wheeling her directly to your clinic, isn’t that hard. Whereas Sharon might be a single parent to three kids who all need dropping at school/nursery/grandparents then Sharon needs to battle through 45 mins of traffic, field work calls in the car, find a parking space and then get herself to her 10am appt.

I do see it from both sides. I used to work in an oncology department and the clinics were ALWAYS running at LEAST an hour late, and that was on a good day.

My clinic would run on time (and 9 times out of 10, does) if it wasn’t for people strolling in late.

I think the obvious answer is that the NHS just doesn’t work anymore. It’s beyond repair and nobody wants to admit that the precious NHS is not fit for purpose.

If they are late and not in when there name is called can you go straight to the next person on the list? Then if they do come in and insist on being seen add them to the end of the list. If there are, for example, 120 minutes in a 2 hour clinic and 12 x 10 minute appointments then does the order you see those 12 patients in matter?

None of my patients get hospital transport. They all make their own way here.

I think there's a perception that you will be made to wait beyond any appointment time the NHS gives you, so turning up ten minutes late won't make much difference. I get that peopl shouldn't do that, but when it's true that people are rarely seen at the time they are given for their appointment, I can see why I think happens.

It's fine to make them rebook

You say it would make you unpopular with staff, why's that? Do you mean the receptionist who has to explain it? You need a big sign in reception and it should go on appointment letters.

One of my last hospital visits - we were all seen at least an hour late (and I was the lovely patient who used a fraction of my time so speeded things up after me. The reason things ran late? Something had gone wrong with the computer system and they had booked twice the normal number of patients in for that clinic.

But depending on what kind of clinic you are running - could it be that it is their condition that makes time keeping hard? Depression and anxiety can both make time keeping hard.

"I think the obvious answer is that the NHS just doesn’t work anymore. It’s beyond repair and nobody wants to admit that the precious NHS is not fit for purpose."

I wouldn't write it off because of late people. Have you seen the thread about behaviour in the theatre? We're dealing with a very strange society right now.

I've done clinic work and it's so frustrating. As are dna's with no contract. We used to ring people the day before to make sure they would still make it, then they would still not turn up with no contact when we could have filled the appointment!

Not unreasonable to cancel our make them wait. We used to keep the last hour of the day free so that if people turned up late, we could offer them an appointment when clinic had finished if they were willing to wait. They had the choice of that or rebook.

As my post above, had an 8.30.am.podiatry appointment at said hospital. Got on train at 6am to allow for delays. Arrived at hospital bat 7.30am. Went up to clinic at 8.15, booked in and waited. And waited. And waited. Went to reception at 9am and asked what was happening. No one knew (or gave a shit) as they don't deal with Podiatry apparently. Eventually podiatrist wandered in at 9.20, and I got called in at 9.30 am..no.apology or explanation.

So, I understand what the op is saying but maybe have a look at patients experiences too.

Thorns I agree, it's a behemoth that needs to be dismantled. It is a bureaucratic mess and there is no cognizance of service left within it. We need a system similar to that in France and every hcp should have engraved on their hearts. "The NHS is free at the point of delivery, it is not free. It is funded by the people for the people. The people have been grateful for poorbservice and sub-optimal care for far too long " people - start kicking up a stink.