Boys will be boys!

[thiscouldbethehill]

What I mean by this is the general attitude that boys will naturally be rough and boisterous and also that getting in fights or intentionally hurting another child is not only to be expected but in some cases actively encouraged.

This attitude is prevalent where I live, I even heard it from my sons teacher today! My DS is in primary school.

AIBU to ask how common this attitude is in your area? Do you agree that boys will be boys?

Well,there will be lots of people coming on here to tell you that boys and girls are exactly the same, should be treated the same,blah blah blah.

However, it's my opinion that there are big differences between the Average boy and Average girl! (and there's a range of both) I do think boys and girls need to be treated differently. And yes, when talking averages, I think boys are generally more boisterous and active and well, just, motor. And mine LOVE play fighting each other, they really really enjoy it!

That said,I don't think anyone, boy or girl, should be mean to others, bully etc.. and no, being mean is not a boy thing or a girl thing ...

I do think boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Some of it’s nature some conditioning. But that’s no excuse for violent aggressive behaviour.

There is usually a reason why stereotypes arise.

The average boy may be more into play fighting and generally being rough and boisterous than the average girls (nature and nurture I think rather than 'or'). This doesn't mean that it is always acceptable, particularly when the kids who don't fit the stereotype are marginalised, targetted or bullied.

Inappropriate behaviour, however stereotypical, should always be managed and not excused on that basis.

I agree with PP
Stereotypes generally come from somewhere and I agree, there is a big difference from my experience in the average boy and average girl.

I normally hear ‘boys will be boys’ being referred to endearing behaviour. I don’t often hear it as an excuse for bad behaviour

I know what you mean but I also feel like boys can get a really rough time in the education system...feminine behaviour is seen as good behaviour. I think boys generally are more aggressive...this has not just come about from societies expectations and stereotyping (although it may play a part) but I also believe this is partly their natural instincts and biological makeup.

My son hates fighting, overly loud play or rough play. There things I don’t tolerate at all, sadly many people allow boys to get away with things that they would punish a girl for.

My son has lovely long hair, he often gets called a girl at the park, it sadly isn’t uncommon for an adult to discourage him from doing things as “little girls need to be careful”. Girls are trained from day one to be calm and to limit their behaviour, boys are taught that their genitals are an excuse for their behaviour.

I think it is arubbish saying. What if your boy isn't like that, what if you have a girl who likes rough and tumble. It,s stereotyping and sometimes an excuse for unruly behaviour.

Yes isn't it proven that boys fall behind in the education system because they learn best doing/being outdoors/running/jumping etc and being expected to sit and concentrate on detailed tasks does not work well for them early on. I think that's where the forest school school of thought comes in too.
I think the issue comes when children aren't allowed to do things other than what they are stereotypically thought to do.

This phrase is utterly depressing. Don't condone behaviour because they're a boy

How about raising boys to be respectful instead? Astounded at the amount of people who accept this damaging phrase.

Usually people who say boys will be boys are just excusing poor behaviour that they don't want to address. Sometimes feels to me this is where excusing bad male behaviour begins.

Totally agree that there is a big difference though between being active and loud to that of being rude, fighting and aggressive

@SimonJT

My son hates fighting, overly loud play or rough play. There things I don’t tolerate at all

You say your ds doesn't like these thing...what would you do if he did? You say you wouldn't tolerate it but how would that work?

I wouldn't use that language either as it just reinforces the poor stereotype

Just like emphasising prettiness in girls.

I was trying to explain to my husband when I was talking about being concerned about my growing wrinkles and he couldn't see what the issue was that it was partly due to the years and years of conscious and subconscious messages girls get about looks being important. Boys generally don't get all that thrown at them.

Really interesting subject.

I don't much mind play fighting, personally, and in some cultures it's very common/encouraged. I do think if you're telling kids off for it, you should tell all kids who do it off. If you're treating girls who play-fight more harshly than boys, something is very wrong.

I completely agree with @formerbabe the education system is set up for girls to generally succeed. There are obviously exceptions to every rule but in general the attributes the please teachers calmness, quietness, neatness are typically those found in girls. The boys in my class have lots of energy, they never fight or rough and tumble but they just want to move a lot. We have started the Daily Mile challenge and its the boys who are getting the most out if it and looking forward to it.

Boys will be boys is accepted as a fact where I live.
That is fine. And as PP have said, it's an phrase used in an endearing manner generally about boisterous or dominant behaviour.
For me this is fine.

My problem comes when a girl also participates in the same behaviour and it is suddenly not so endearing to those same people.

Or when it is (ime regularly) being used to excuse behaviour that has gone beyond what should be considered acceptable and has turned to rude, aggressive, bullying or misogynistic behaviour.

@formerbabe He would be appropriately punished and re-directed, just as any other parent would pubish if their child did something wrong.

What would you do if your child liked fighting?

Thanks for all the replies. Really interesting reading. The reason I was shocked (and a bit depressed today) was that the teacher was excusing a fight which included kicking and hitting as typical boyish behaviour. This is not the case in our house where we have two active boys who we have always tried to teach that fighting and violence is never the answer.

SimonJT

@formerbabe He would be appropriately punished and re-directed, just as any other parent would pubish if their child did something wrong

What would you do if your child liked fighting?

He did. I sent him to martial arts classes.

Is being loud, boisterous and liking fighting necessarily bad? I'm not condoning violence and society doesn't and can't accept violence. But I do wonder how much is nature v nurture. I believe nature is often far more important. Aggression in boys is not purely from societies stereotyping...everywhere I go I see people telling boys to behave. I have a real hippy dippy peace loving friend who couldn't understand why her son just wanted to fight all the time.

I believe a huge part is their natural instinct and as parents we have to teach them to control their instincts so they can survive and live in our modern society.

I hate that because it’s symptomatic of a certain view of the world, one that says that boys and girls are different and therefore you can’t expect certain things from one or the other.
Eg: boys will be fighting. If there is some rough play in the playground it has to be boys therefore all boys are punished but none of the girls are. Regardless of who was actually involved in the rough play.
Eg boys rent good at English but teacher doesn’t see the point of pushing them in spelling. They’ll have plenty of time to learn once at secondary. Whereas they would expect more from the girls (same issue with maths but the other way around)
Eg boys are messy so a nice writing or a notebook nicely presented isn't expected.

Yep I’ve had many of those commenst about my ds when they were at primary school and it used to drive me potty. It also annoyed the hell out if my dcs when they ended been punished for things they di DT do but could see some of the girls involved getting away with murder.

In my experience, “boys will be boys” is almost always used to excuse/condone aggressive behaviour. And I would be wary of the “natural instinct” biological stuff, to be honest. We live in a society with rules and regulations, we are not primitive animals.

Those of you talking about education and “feminine behaviour” being rewarded - how could it be any other way? I’m genuinely interested (I teach myself). If boys learn best by “jumping and running around/being outdoors”, how would you teach academic subjects like maths or English or accounting or whatever using “masculine” learning behaviours?

Of course, men don’t seem to fare too badly in the workplace in the end, since they dominate the top levels in almost every field, so maybe it’s swings and roundabouts.

@formerbabe, I would do what I have done with my dcs.
Plenty of exercise so they can get rid of the excess energy
Teaching them boundaries, the same way I taught them not to jump on sofas or not to write in the walls etc...
Redirecting when they were small (and not so small)

Many ways to do it really. But much easier if you start when they are little rather than wait until they are at school (same with everything really).
But yes teaching a boy not to rough, not to shout/scream, not to run around, to be able to sit still for a while is totally possible. Just like you teach that a girl btw.

Yes I think that usually boys will be boys. Girls are generally not as boisterous it's just the way it is!

@HeyNotInMyName

Yes of course...we teach out children the correct way to behave in the society we exist in. We are not cavemen/cavewomen. But, are we actually teaching our sons to betray their natural instincts? Yes, we probably are. I mean, there's no other choice to do that but let's at least acknowledge the fact.

I volunteered on a school trip once. The boys were constantly pushing and shoving each other. I can assure you the teachers were not letting them off that sort of behaviour with the boys will be boys excuse. They were constantly telling them to stop and dealing with the behaviour appropriately. But, it begs the question of why were the boys just so different from the girls? I don't believe it can only be down to society's gender stereotyping.