To think all female children’s authors should write books with girls in

[Bigmango]

I find it so depressing how many children’s books feature only boys or at least boys in the main role. I recently read a book about pirates to my daughter where every one of the four main characters was a boy (for absolutely no reason - it would have made no difference to the storyline if one or more were girls). I was then shocked to realise the author was a woman. As a female children’s author, wouldn’t you see it as your job to try and redress the balance a bit?

Yes Hermione was fantastic. But would Harriet Potter have landed so well?! I'm not sure how I would have felt about female Harry who is, let's face it, a bit dim. JK Rowling provided lots of female characters who really made their mark on the story - Prof McGonagall, Luna, the insane sister who was Voldertmort's no 1 fan, Mrs Weasley (although in a conventional female role), the grim woman with the kitten plates to name but a few. Agree though that the "extras" seem to be mainly male.

I also object to the idea that I should write purely strong female characters. I take that to mean a character that comes strongly off the page, rather than someone with a female name that you never get to know.

The secondary strong female role doesn’t help address the balance in my eyes though - that’s what women have always been doing in film and literature. Not so much in children's literature (or popular writing) - the secondary female character is there to watch and reflect , not to initiate.

When I was growing up, apart from the school series, the main series were Famous Five and Swallows and Amazons. Famous Five - two active boys, a "girly" girl who loves housekeeping, and an outdoorsy girl who has to pretend to be a boy (short hair and male name). Not a great role model. Swallow and Amazons - two active boys, "girly" girl who loves mothering - and an intelligent and imaginative girl who is herself and doesn't have to pretend to be a boy - plus two girls who confidently manage their own boat - and then Dorothea, who I can't remember much about, and Dick, a studious boy whose copious notes about everything gave Arthur Ransome a chance to impart knowledge on all sorts of stuff.

maybe the answer then is getting more male authors to write female protagonists

Why? Honestly, book publishing - children’s books and teen/YA is absolutely awash with diverse characters right now, from both sexes.

It will take time for the balance to be found - that’s why the statistics on diverse books for diverse readers are so depressing at the moment, because it is a relatively recent trend (last 5-10 years) - but there’s no need to encourage or otherwise ‘fix’ the issue ... it’s happening.

I didn't mean that crossing out - I've no idea how that happened!

I agree with you OP. I think that male protagonists are still seen as neutral ..

@GruntBaby this is fascinating! Do you go into schools at all? This would be a great topic for a year 6 class.

@GruntBaby

Interesting technique!

I find that almost all of my narrative characters are, in essence, a reflection of aspects of my own character or opinions - the good and the bad. Out of two dozen narrative voices, I can only think of four that (I hope) have nothing to do with me! (Looking at you, murderer, and you, sadist/rapist, and you, weaselly git who betrays your friends. I'm glad you're dead.).

But those characters include different races, nationalities, sexes and sexualities, even though I'm a white mc female.

I think non-writers don't necessarily understand how characters come to be. In my case a book might start as I am standing in the shower and it's as though my brain suddenly tunes into a new radio station, and suddenly I'm receiving dialogue, overhearing two characters I've never met have a conversation. Sometimes it's as though there's a house within my brain and I peek through the door and see them living their lives. Or I might think one day in the gym that it would be cool to write about a certain setting, and over the following months all the components of that setting sort of drift, ready-formed, into place.

Writing a book (for me at least) is like aiming to make a chocolate cake by throwing random quantities of ingredients into a bowl and hoping for the best, it's much messier and organic than listing out and measuring all the ingredients.

I have a part written children book that I hope to finish one day. It has a male protagonist, most of the the main characters are male.

Why?

1. Its about soldiers in WW1 so they pretty much has to be male, but it's a split narrative and the "other" voice is the lead boy's mother.
2. I have sons but no daughters so I know male children "better" than female ones.
3. I was making dinner one day the the story appeared in my head and it literally would not go away until I had grabbed a note book and written down the synopsis, I didn't plan to write a book I didn't invent a story or characters they invented themselves and shouted at me until I listened to them.
4. if I ever finish it and anybody wants to read it I have an idea for a connected story that would have girls and women front and centre (it would revolve around suffragettes).

@GruntBaby - I've honestly tried the other way!

My female character concept is very strong. She is very easily defined.

The plots I've designed by 'ingredients' as you describe would be very saleable. They are easily the most engaging plot concepts, the elevator pitch is perfect. It would make a great TV series in the detective genre - Bodyguard style intrigue. Plenty of plots to follow up like Agatha Christie.

If I could just write the damn thing, it would be great, honestly.

But nooooo, dense political YA fantasy it is... Or the elves one. The elves one is fun, I grant you.

Why do women also mostly write Male protagonists? Same reason as why females are invariably preoccupied with pleasing daddy then later getting a boyfriend/husband - females are socialised to put the needs of males first: their fathers, their brothers, their husbands and then their sons.

the amount of sheer bollocks you can read on this forum sometimes.

That might be true for you, but don't talk for all women.

I think YABVU. Authors write based on what takes them, and that’s how it should be. You shouldn’t have to be thinking “oh and I have to put in X characters because it’s my job to address the balance”.

A good story is from the heart. Forcing things in that weren’t imagined in your story just because of PC bullshit is utter madness and will not be the piece of work the author envisioned.

I know what you mean; I find if you try the ingredients method, the 'cake' doesn't necessarily rise, so to speak.

After novel 1 (modern lit/commercial crossover) I decided that I was bad at writing action scenes and that I should also avoid historical because of all the extra research. Novel 2 appeared in my head, fully-formed, as a bloody historical thriller. You really can't control your brain.

@Pollaidh

Yes, it took me a while too! Ha, I have a lot of characters with just one chapter. Ups the perspective count.

I think my gentle and weak female character absorbs a lot of the qualities I dislike in myself, but also has some of the best - she never cheats, lies, damages any of the others. She also never bloody speaks up for herself, never confronts those who do her wrong... The female lead of course, gets herself in bother for the exact opposite! I find them both harder to write than the flamboyant male lead, who only a few people would recognise as me, but is right there...

Cheaper than therapy, as you say!

(this thread is so much fun! I struggle to meet writers locally who talk on this level...)

No I don't go into schools, I'm not a 'proper' writer yet, working on edits with agent & editor, with 2 more books in draft. And these are all adult stories, I've got an idea for 1 YA maturing slowly but haven't written anything.

I can't really say that I've noticed the absence of female characters particularly, either from what I've read or my children.

Joan Aiken is the first one to spring to mind-look at Dido Twite, definitely strong female character there.
Elizabeth Goudge generally had the female characters as the lead, Noel Streatfield, Monica Edwards, Gwendoline Courtney....

But I don't think male authors exclusively write about male characters.
Arthur Ransome: Swallows and Amazons has 4 girls to 2 boys and Nancy is really the leader and strongest character, and, if you had to pick a main child, Titty would get that accolade.
In the Coots series, it is mostly boys, but, as the only girl who features throughout the books, Dorothea is really in charge, especially in "The Big Six", they all look to her for a lead and ideas.
Malcolm Saville's Lone Pine series the girls take as big a part usually as the boys, and Mary is definitely the leader of the twins. In his other series (Buckinghams/Jillies etc) the girls are often the leaders, and the only books I can think that he only wrote with one main character they were female (eg. Jane's country year)

Yes, there are books that are male biased. Alex Rider for example, but are you really thinking that shouldn't be allowed.

When I write, my main character tends to be female simply because I am more comfortable with writing that way. At the moment the one I'm writing has a disability too. She has a disability I'm very familiar with, as it's what dd has. I would not be comfortable with writing about a disability I knew less about because I know how frustrating it can be reading. In the same way, I'd rather someone wrote what they are comfortable with.
I didn't invent a story or characters they invented themselves and shouted at me until I listened to them. That is a very good way of putting it.

Was about to say that the Lone Pine Series had some strong female leads, great username @Witchend!

@GruntBaby
Great minds!
Have you read any others of his?
Buckinghams is 3 children, brother and sister and friends, and the sister is definitely the lead. The Jillies are 2 sisters and a brother, and two brothers and the sisters are the colourful characters who lead the books.
Even the Simon Baines series where Simon is the lead, he's usually got a feisty girlfriend who is not going to be pushed around.

I’m really enjoying this! An ill thought out rant has become a really interesting look into the world of an author. Thanks everyone (who has rtft).

Still blame the patriarchy tho..

@Witchend but Nancy doesn't behave like a girl, Susan does and is looked down on it for behaving like the parent.
Dorothea is a bit different because she's clearly cleverer than the entirety of the rest of, say, the Big Six and they look up to her. Also she doesn't get parked doing the cooking and so on.

Tell you what, though, while we're at it. Why always always get rid of the parents? (well I know why but that's also a bit cliché and lazy) which makes the Raggedy Witches books (2 out already, final one to come) so fantastic. Try them.

My youngest son loved the "How to train your Dragon" books (so do I - they are by far my favourite modern children's series), written by a female with a lead male character BUT he's not the big, strong typical viking. Hiccup (and Fishlegs) do a wonderful job of showing boys that there is more than one way to be a leader, more than one way to be a hero and that you don't have to be a macho, alpha male to be a success (in fact those type of characters are pilloried).

How about authors are free to write as they wish and the rest of us are free to read as we choose?

Agree with this
Oh and YABU!

@Bigmango - I'm realising that the world of an author makes us sound a bit mad! Certainly if we went round saying we had people living in a little doll's house in our brain, or we heard voices in the shower, and didn't mention we were writers, we'd raise some concerns...

@Witchend - Yes I've read the re-issues of the Buckingham's, and quite enjoyed, but tried one of his series with younger characters and it was too young as I'm a sucker for slowly building romantic subplots. Must try Simon Baines. I think they're so much better written than Famous Five etc, and far less troubling. Trying to get DD into them now.

i write (adult hist fic) and actually it is really important to me to shine the spotlight on women (for once) and to know that i'm increasing representation/visibilty of women - however that sort of aligns with my creative interests too- those are the characters i want to explore and write. i like writing women.