Bothered by thirdhand smoke exposure for my 1YO

[Plssendadvice]

Hi there,

My partner is a smoker. He has been since day one and I can accept that it's a complicated and difficult habit to quit, not that I'll ever fully understand it as a non-smoker, and I've always just tolerated it and tried to keep myself away from it. When I fell pregnant with my daughter I made it clear that I didn't want it anywhere near myself or the baby, and ideally would like him to stop for all of our health. He didn't, and I must admit fault in feeling disappointed that he didn't at least try when it was my own will and not his that he try to quit. I read a lot about the dangers of thirdhand smoke and the toxins left on clothes and on the breath after someone has a cigarette, especially for little ones, and asked him to at least wear a jacket when he went out for a smoke so that he could take it off before coming inside to reduce my daughter's exposure to any of the nasties. This was a constant battle and it would make me cringe to see him come straight inside and pick up our newborn daughter while still reeking of cigarette smoke and breathing it out on his breath.

Just over a year on, this is still a battle I am not willing to surrender for my daughter's well being. He leaves cigarette butts and ash all over the ground and through the backyard so that if we ever want to take my daughter outside to play, I'm on high alert trying to make sure none of it ends up in her mouth (hello, babies eat EVERYTHING) and feel gross about her being out there at all. Recently he has started smoking in the car again - we have the one car that we share - so I now feel icky about putting my daughter in the car and had to remove the car seat and give it all a good wash for my own peace of mind. So now I have to keep taking the car seat in and out of the car, or live with the thought of all those toxins settling into the fabric. I've tried multiple times to bring this up with him, and always try to take a calm and logical approach about it, but his rebuttal is "It's all bullshit" and "his mother used to smoke in the car with him and his siblings and they're all fine" and everytime I get my head chewed off. I'm not asking him to quit smoking (he has expressed he has absolutely no desire to do so), but to abstain from smoking in the car that frequently carries our 1 year old daughter, and try to keep it to himself and try to contain the mess from it to limit my daughter's exposure. The car absolutely reeks and I hate the thought of my daughter being exposed to even that. We fought about it in the car today and he threatened to kick me out of the car and insisted he'd never stop.

He at least tries to smoke away from my daughter but this still really bugs me. I don't know how to approach this in a way that is well received by him and inspires change. I don't think I'm asking for much but he makes out like I'm asking him to cut off his arm. Am I being over protective?

Why did you have a baby with him
If it bothers you that much?

YANBU. This would be a massive dealbreaker for me in a relationship.

I'm afraid I don't think you are being protective enough. It is illegal to smoke in a car with a child for good reason and even if he doesn't actually smoke with her in (wouldn't put it passed him with his attitude) there will be dangerous toxins in the vehicle. This increases her risk of cot death and many other health issues. Honestly this would be a deal breaker for me. You said 'I am not asking him to quit smoking'. I think you are being too soft. Having a parent who smokes increases the likelihood your child will smoke as well as all the health risks, it take a huge chunk out of your family income, it shows how selfish and ignorant he is, and I personally wouldn't be in a hurry to make friends with anyone who's infant smells like smoke. I wouldn't want to take my child to your house. This will impact you socially too. Is he not aware of the cold hard facts? Could you get the health visitor to shame him? Personally I would issue an ultimatum. Quit smoking or leave.

I think you are being too lenient tbh. This would be a dealbreaker for me. My DH smoked when we first met but I made it clear how much I hated everything about it and he did quit after a couple of months, never smoked again. I would not be so understanding with a small child’s health at stake. He definitely shouldn’t be smoking in the car, ever.

You need to be firm and give an ultimatum. Ask him to try vaping.

Car owner wrings hands over crushed out fag ends. Couldn't make it up.

Also, threatening to kick you out of the car is full on. Are you ok? Has he ever been agressive like that before? Does he shout in front of the baby?

Nah he should not be smoking in the car if the baby is going to be in there at some point. It’s not fair. I don’t know what the answer is OP. He sounds stubborn and pretty uncaring tbh.

It’s not thirdhand smoke, it’s secondhand smoke and it is terrible for a child’s health.

I don’t think you’re going to be able to convince him. There was a good TV advert in the UK a while back that you’ll find on YouTube but it’s unlikely he’ll watch it or take it seriously.

You made a mistake having a child with someone who would endanger their health. Now you get to decide whether you’ll stay with him and keep risking her health or not. It’d be an easy choice for me.

Apologies, I read the OP as he smokes while she’s IN the car (hence me thinking it was secondhand smoke). That’ll teach me to read more closely, sorry.

I've had the "you need to quit smoking" conversation with him on many occasions, and have honestly given up on that approach as he has been so stubborn and awful about it. It got to the point where I felt like it was doing more harm than good. I've suggested going to counselling on multiple occasions as a way for us to find a way to discuss it (and other issues) in a healthy manner but it keeps getting brushed off. Plus, yes, the finances are an issue, no thanks to this disgusting habit.

I'm aware of all these factors and I'm not okay with it - it's the source of pretty much all of our fights.

Making it about our daughter's health seems to just make him angrier (I assume because he's already aware of the harmful effects but doesnt want to admit it). And I have plenty of facts that he would just scoff at. And yes, I'M embarrassed and ashamed about it but I don't want to be too rash and give up on him for it. It's more complicated than just the smoking - there are deep rooted issues that have not been addressed here and I think the smoking is part of the coping mechanism. Not that it makes it any more okay. I'm just basically here trying to find a way to find an approach that gets through to him and I don't think shaming him is it. All this doesn't mean im backing off, I've been borrowing my mum's car to avoid the smoke mobile and my daughter hasn't been in it since I noticed he'd started smoking in it again. I feel very strongly about this but I can't help but doubt myself with the way he responds to it. I'm an empathetic soul, sometimes to mine (and apparently now my daughter's) demise.

You are absolutely not being too overprotective or unreasonable.

Yes, it is hard to quite, but the love for your child and their good health should be enough. It was for me, and i bloody loved smoking xx

I'm fine. He doesn't get violent, he just gets heated in the moment and he always gets his guard up very quickly when I mention anything about his smoking. He usually wouldn't even make physical threats but it was because he felt confined being in the car while we were talking about it. Thanks for your concern though haha.

Tell him it's the cigarettes or it's you & your daughter.
He needs a huge wake up call.

What is it that actually makes you think she’s in danger. I’ve never actually seen anything to put a causal link between third hand smoke and anything. I know there is a link between having a smoking parent and cot death but again I’ve never seen anything to suggest s causal link. I’m not saying it’s not dangerous. I just wonder whether you have misinterpreted sources/new evidence has come out that I am not aware of.

@secondhand smoke is when you breathe is someone else’s smoke as opposed to sitting in a car that’s been smoked in for instance.

This is not OK. Addicts struggle to put anything or anyone above their addiction and this is blindingly obvious in your situation. He's clearly in denial and not in the right headspace to change.

As previous posters have said, he needs a wake up call or something to change his mindset but you don't want your daughters health to deteriorate for that wake up call to happen.

If you're not in the position to make a grand gesture (ie leave him/kick him out) then I guess the only option is to continue as you are and limit the amount of exposure to smoke that your daughter gets.

Does he actually know how harmful it is? Really?

Because I honestly can’t believe someone would be so selfish when it comes to their own child.

Actually ELM8 just explained that to me!

Personally for me smoking is a deal breaker, I absolutely would not be with a smoker because I hate it so much. However you walked into this relationship knowing he was a smoker and chose to have a child with him. You don’t mention having a conversation before getting pregnant about where he would smoke or not in the car etc so I think it’s a bit unreasonable asking him to change now unless you’re prepared to leave him over it.

There is growing evidence supporting the dangers of thirdhand smoking. The toxins settle on surfaces and dust, and can later be dispersed back into the air, and can react with other particles present in the air to create new pollutants. They've done studies where they've sampled children's urine and found nicotine present from thirdhand smoke exposure. There are limited studies and the mid - long term affects aren't well understood so it's still a bit of a grey area concept. Imo it's the kind of thing that should be easily avoidable so why not bypass the risk. But here I am.

I didn't bother to cover it but he was "quitting" when we first started dating. He was taking champix but apparently it messes with you pretty bad and he didnt persist. At one stage he switched to vaping entirely but that also ended and I got him to try it again but for whatever reason he didn't give up smoking again and always gave me cop out excuses. Looking back I don't know why I tolerated it in the first place but there's no point dwelling in the past like that anyway. What's done is done and I could never regret that my beautiful daughter is here now whether in his presence or not. And I made it very clear to him that I didn't want either of us exposed to his smoking before having baby. It's just unfortunate that he doesn't (and/or doesn't want to) see the harm in what he does

@Welshrainbow

Yes! Yes!

You are of course quite right to be upset re the smoking but thirdhand smoke isn’t a thing. There is no growing evidence of harm because there isn’t any after almost 20 years of searching.
Toxins from smoke only become airborne again when activated, typically by spraying methanol spiked with quinoline and toluene/ethyl acetate over affected areas. Unlikely I would think unless you fill the house with vehicle exhaust.
If there are studies involving human babies urine I would imagine it’s cotinine they’ve found but at extremely low levels and not at all harmful, just because something is present doesn’t mean it’s toxic. You have to be careful because many studies mention babies, adolescents and offspring to disguise the fact that they’re talking about rodents.
Difficult situation for you though.

The toxins settle on surfaces and dust, and can later be dispersed back into the air, and can react with other particles present in the air to create new pollutants
Like car fumes? Smoke from factories etc?
What about the water pollution which affects the soil and subsequently our grown food?
Or the hormones and shite they feed animals which makes its way into our bodies?

We are exposed to harmful smoke, fumes and toxins every single day.
YOU chose to stay with and marry a smoker - where was your 'concern' for your own wellbeing?
You were ingesting all these toxins the whole time you've been with him - where was the concern for your future DC?
You've BOTH already passed them onto your DC via your blood and whatever effect they've had on your DNA.

He obviously doesn't want to give up smoking.
So just agree to not smoke inside the house or in the car without ventilating it.

Leaving the fag ends in the garden and smoking in the car are both just vile. There are lots of parents who struggle to quit but who would never do both of those things. The car will wreak and it is just totally selfish to do that.