To admit defeat and accept my dog is never going to be safe around other dogs?

[ThornsWithin]

Got my dog at 8 weeks old. I tried to do all the right things in terms of socialisation etc and took her to puppy play sessions as soon as she was able. Instantly it was noted that she was a rough player. The other pups were scared of her. By the time she was 14 weeks old she was thrown out and banned from the group after picking a pup up by its throat and shaking it.
So I moved her into junior play sessions with the big dogs. She was the same there, constantly wanting to fight. She spent more time in time out than actually playing.
I recently booked her into day school one day a week. Every time I pick her up the report card is full of “rough play” “time out” “biting” etc.

Last week they told me she keeps picking on a Labrador. I’ve seen this dog and it has a huge bum. My dog is apparently wrestling it to the ground constantly and biting its face and neck.

Last night I picked her up and they told me I’d have to change the days I take her so that it doesn’t coincide with when big bum is there.

Last weekend she brought down a fully grown Doberman and stood over it growling in its face. She’s at advanced training classes but the socialisation side of it is becoming a no no as nobody wants their dog near her.

Are some dogs just NOT dog friendly no matter what you do??

we've no idea why after eight years he still runs to his bed when I'm taking it off my partners trousers to wash etc - but all we can surmise is that his life before we got him must have been very lonely and scary

This is so sad, my brother has a rescue dog that is absolutely terrified of the sweeping brush, he has no idea why and doesn't like to imagine what's happened in the past for the dog to react so badly :(

picking a pup up by its throat and shaking it.

I don't know where I saw it, but isn't that a dogs 'killshot'? Going for the throat is alarming enough, but doing the head shake with it isn't playing, it's trying to kill.

What the actual fuck!

Your dog sounds dangerous around other dogs, I am absolutely astounded that daycare accepted her.

She shouldn't be anywhere near other dogs, she will pick on the wrong dog one day and get her arse handed to her and it'll be your fault entirely.

Or, she will be injured by another angry owner.
I certainly wouldn't hestitate to hit or kick a dog attacking mine.

You could very easily find yourself in trouble from the law as well, she only needs to frighten someone to be in breach of the law in the UK

It needs muzzling and keeping well away from other dogs.

He bit through to the bone before he could be pulled off - Thankfully, he went to the military to train with them

I sincerely hope my gut instinct is right and this simply isn't true.

Dogs that attack people unprovoked have no place in attack dog/security/military training.

Solid, stable temperaments are required for that line of work.

I don't know where you live but I would highly recommend you get in touch with these people:

dogcommunication.co.uk/

They really know what they are doing, are highly qualified and use up to date, positive methods. I have referred many dogs to them and have seen nothing but good results.

And my God 😱

And unless she’s put dogs in the vets then it’s not actually aggression but lack of manners

This is just breathtaking, worse than when you tried to defend outcross band on wolfhounds 🤦🏻‍♀️

My dog has never put another dog in the vets, she's never bitten but I can assure you she is definately aggressive and not just bad mannered.

This thread is just horrifying.

Outcross band? WTF?
People often mistake overly boisterous and rude play for aggression. We are only going on someone’s second or third hand recount of what happened. It’s not reliable.

Nice bit of victim blaming there, OP

Wetting myself here! 😂

All these puppy socialisation groups do is teach puppies that it’s ok to pelt up to other dogs and leap on them, my absolute worst fear. My dog is terrified of other dogs so keeps away from them but if they leap at him, he chooses fight rather than flight, then he gets the bloody blame! Drives me mad and really ruins his confidence. He’s otherwise a happy little boy.

Get her out of those classes and start walking her on a lead, make her sit calmly to greet new dogs. She’s the kind of dog that other owners will be terrified of, I know I’m wary of Dobies. If she leaps at other dogs and other owners complain, you’ll have an issue defending her.

You’re the poster who was desperate for a Donnie puppy yes? I thought you’d done a load of research into them? They’re big bloody dogs to control when grown, so get her trained impeccably now.

My dog is currently going through adolescence and has started playing rough. She goes for a weekly walk with other dogs, and she started dominating the play with the other dogs. Doesn't matter the size of the other dogs she was always dominating. Only ever in a playful way and never aggressive. So we switched her group of dogs to some male dogs that were higher energy than her previous group and wouldn't be so quick so submit to her. She has finally met her match and her manners have been so much better since she hasn't been dominating the play anymore. Although we still monitor her play carefully and only let her play with certain dogs.

I do believe that if a dog is always allowed to dominate other dogs it will have an impact on their behaviour. I can't say I know what the answer is. But what worked for mine was finding dogs that matched her play so she wasn't always the dominant one. It taught her that she doesn't always have to be too dog. What we did was always done in a controlled environment where the behaviour of all dogs were well known beforehand. Introduction was all on lead without play to begin with to make sure they would get along

Keep socialising with other dogs in safe environments for as long as its possible. Train, train and train until she is as good as gold with you. In the long term you may have to keep her on lead and manage her behaviour (with sausages) when you pass other dogs. I had a GSD who was as sweet as could be with people, loved kids and detested other dogs. Once we had given up on the socialising and behaviourists, she had a long and happy life on lead (long lead mostly) and was a much loved pet. I was deeply disappointed for a while that I had a dog that could not walk free but I got used to it and loved that girl to bits.

Outcross band? WTF?
People often mistake overly boisterous and rude play for aggression. We are only going on someone’s second or third hand recount of what happened. It’s not reliable.

Auto correct, it meant to say outcross ban, it was a thread where you basically said there should be no outcross allowed to remove health problems only wolfhound x wolfhound breeding because otherwise the wolfhound would cease to be a wolfhound.

I don't think shaking by the throat can in any way shape or form by considered play.

There may be certain times with bigger dogs, like the Labrador perhaps, where it plays roughly but certainly the small dog shake incident doesn't sound like it to me.

The dog is a serious liability and the OP should muzzle it.

@KarmaStar - this sounds good advice to me.

Sorry to hear OP, please don’t listen to the trainer who said they can’t help, it’s a very easy to obtain qualification to be considered a dog trainer and although they might not be able to help, there’s always a trainer out there that can.

My dad specialises in problem dogs that other trainers have given up on and he says it’s just about finding the right method for that dog and teaching the owner.

I dislike puppy socialisation classes as it can make those whose dogs don’t automatically play well, feel like there is something wrong. In your case, the group classes aren’t working and keep searching until you find the right trainer for you.

I don’t think you necessarily need a muzzle, just keep your dog on a lead at all times around other dogs - and not a retractable or long lead. A bit of cooked chicken and some praise for calmly walking past other dogs won’t go amiss either. If your dog doesn’t always play well with other dogs, they can play with you and you can say stop if the play gets too rowdy and offer lots of praise and chicken for good playing behaviour.

Hope this helps!

I think you need to look at this another way OP.

Firstly, daycare is generally horrendous for dogs. I think the bloody things should be banned half the time, it’s so easy to allow dogs to develop fear aggression from dogs like yours and for yours to get worse. I bet they aren’t stepping in quick enough for the play to be escalating to this point and the behaviour becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

It sounds like dominant behaviour and she probably gets an adrenaline rush from bullying others. I have one similar who plays by grabbing, biting, nipping and tackling. As a result she does not play with others as I’m not willing to take the risk of her hurting someone’s dog.

I would refocus the dogs attention to you. Other dogs should be boring, YOU need to be the fun thing in her life. Training, games, maybe even agility. Dogs need to be in the background as just one of those things to pass by and not to wrestle with. Mine don’t even acknowledge other dogs now, why would they when I’m much more interesting and that’s the way I like it.

I never understand why people want their dogs galloping over to others as playing, why it’s just not necessary and creates behaviour problems IMO. A friendly greeting and walk on is all that’s required.