To think that SOME high earners don't work that hard?

[Usernamemcname]

I'm a domestic cleaner. The people I clean for are usually quite well off, five bedrooms in a posh suburb of an expensive city. They are often in whilst I clean, sometimes they come back whilst I'm here.
I see a lot and I know they are in quite high paid jobs. Yet they always seem to be 'working from home' also known as fannying about the kitchen a lot and playing X Box. A lot of them either start late (10am so they miss the traffic) and finish early. One dad picks his daughter up from school every day even though his wife is at home!
I was always told that you have to work hard to get what you want in life, so why do I have to work two jobs whilst my partner works 45+ hours and we just scrape by? What have these people done to be so lucky? They're not old, seem around my age, what jobs do they do and why can't I do them, I have a degree.
Life just seems unfair sometimes. Unless it's a doctor, I'm sure I could have a crack at it.

My brother in law earns a good wage in computers now.

Through uni he grafted though, worked ridiculous hours on minimum wage to fund some of his equipment which allowed him to excel and put his name out in his field.

Now he only works a few hours a day and says his job is ridiculously easy and a great deal of fun. He probably doesn’t work hard now, but he did to get him in that position.

YANBU. I worked as a cleaner during my A levels, and the rest (barmaid, waitress, stable girl...). I worked far harder for longer hours in worse conditions then than I do now although I earn 15 times as much.

I think some would say this of my DH. He regularly works from home, and often just takes a morning off, or can be seen pacing the floor, or just talking on the phone.

He's lucky and clever. He has a particular set of IT skills, and excellent people skills, and just went for the right jobs (and was head hunted because he is very specialised now) - in finance companies, which is where the money is. He did do IT in Telecoms before, and didn't earn nearly as much.

Plus, he always asked for more money at interview. Huge increases in fact - I don't know how he had the nerve- I wouldn't. Last salary increase was over 30k.

But when he's pacing, he's thinking and planning. When he's working from home, it's because he has to get something specific done, and is under pressure. He also has the late night phone calls with the USA, and has to go away, often on short notice, for example, he missed DS2's birthday last year because he had to go to the USA.

I wouldn't like to say how that compares to say, a nurse in A&E, or a fire fighter, or a policeman, or teachers - I don't think he works harder than any of those. I guess it's a bit of a sad indictment on society that those publicly funded roles don't get higher salaries.

Why is MN so full of people bragging about six figure salaries?

Because people start tyreafs about thr subject?

YANBU!

My sister's husband is a bit like this- he always seems to be 'working from home' where he's sat on the sofa watching Sky sports while on the laptop

They are always off on luxury holidays themselves, and often with the children, and have a lovely house. My sister gave up work a few years ago to look after their young children

Yes I do envy them at times!

My DH and I both work full time and barely get time to have a full conversation about anything on most days

My husband is a relatively high earner. He sounds like the people you describe- often working from home (but not always actually working). He doesn’t have any qualifications. He’s mainly reached this position with a lot of luck- he happens to be talented in this area and has had a lot of opportunities come his way.

Although most of the time he doesn’t work particularly hard, his income is based on those times when he does. There’s a lot of responsibility attached to his job and he’s fairly often called out in the middle of the night/ up doing all nighters to sort things out.

My job is more physically demanding but doesn’t pay anywhere near as much. But then my job doesn’t run the risk of massive infrastructural damage!

I'm a medium/high earner, but I echo what others say about availability. I take calls whenever they come in, and never admit to it being the middle of the night (that only happened once!). I'm always available, I'm always reliable. I answer emails on holiday. And calls if I have to. I sometimes work through the night and start very early again the next morning. I also get paid to be able to cope with a stressful working environment with large sums at stake and me being blamed for losing large sums of money if I make a mistake. Not everyone can cope with that sort of pressure.

I do actually get frustrated by other people's lack of work ethic sometimes - chasing up after businesses for appointments, chasing up quotations, businesses not answering their phones or not returning calls when promised, getting details wrong. I guess I'm paid to be a more reliable, trustworthy person than that and my qualifications, which took a long time and were difficult to get, act as a guarantee of that.

Saying that, you can't get rich just by working hard, you have to work smart. You will never get rich working several minimum wage jobs all at once by working in your spare time as well. If you go into the NHS, unless you are going to be a consultant, you won't make much money. That's known and that is unfortunately taken advantage of - that people will do it for altruistic reasons.

People have never given me a chance and I always end up stuck

That stands out to me. What kind of feedback have you had in the past?

I am "fannying around" a little bit now (and have a cleaner). Used to be on six figures when full-time but downshifted now, as money earned above roughly £70K after tax did not even compensate for the extra childcare required.
I routinely worked 60 to 70 hours weeks when climbing up the ladder, studying for a professional qualification on top in my "free time". Before that - a Masters and a PhD.
I often have a couple of cocktails with my cleaner (who is my saviour, to be honest) and we agreed that both our occupations boil down to cleaning other people's mess.
What my cleaner does not see is that I have to be available until the US working day is over (with any long hours on their side) and often need to work on a Sunday if the branch in Israel needs advice, or a couple of times a month have a 6 am start if Shanghai or Tokyo need help.
You are right OP that it is not some sort of an elitist occupation, pretty much everyone with good maths / analytical skills can succeed with some hard graft. If you are local to London, I will be very happy to meet you for a coffee one day to explain entry routes into the profession.

Why is MN so full of people bragging about six figure salaries?

Because it's the internet

I’m also a medium/high earner. I work hard but it’s swings and roundabouts. The last couple of weeks I’ve worked 10-12 hour days.

I can work from home fairly frequently. I also often come home early and carry on working. Sometimes I might take a break and go watch tv for 30-60 mins or come on MN. Often using it as thinking time. Then I start working again.

I’m not being funny but although you have a degree you’re not working in a graduate job. So what’s your degree in? What could you do with it to improve your wage? I think sometimes it’s having the nerve/vision to apply for stuff/work out a career route. But I accept there is also an element of luck. Yes I work hard and for my current job I practised like mad for the interview and obviously interviewed well. But guess it’s luck that nobody with more experience applied and beat me to it.

OP, what is it you want to do, career-wise?

It sounds like you're surprised you've ended up where you are, which often happens as life gets in the way and bills need to be paid, but where were you planning to be?

Hard work isn’t a good indicator better to look at risk / reward and overall profit of companies in the sector.

Medium earner. Don't work very long hours, physically not demanding but mentally very hard work. Last week was intense, and although only around 45 hours actual work by Sunday I was physically throwing up because I was so drained and exhausted. So when people talk about people pottering in the kitchen or whatever whilst working from home, please remember that mentally challenging work often looks like staring into space , and doing something easy and physical can be way to stimulate creative thinking to overcome a problem!

Do I think the disparity in wages is in general a fair reflection of how hard people work with a bonus for having rarer skills? Not at all.

Does hard work help? Yes, if you can pick up skills other people value as a result. Not at all if you think hard work will get rewarded .,.it gets taken for granted

Top 10% earner, but not 6 figures. Local community college, grew up on 'income support'. Got a degree from an old poly, a masters from a Russell Group. Couldn't get a job I wanted, but ended up in a specialised sector. Did all the teams overtime, working weekends and out of hours. 12 years in my particular speciality. Professional qualifications.

I get a lot of freedom at work.

I am WFH when our cleaners are here, as is my husband, who picks up DD. We may appear to be fannying around. Nip to shops, jog, prepare dinner etc. But tomorrow I am up at 5. I'll be in the office for 8 hours, then home and log on. My last call finishes at 2230, then I'm back up at 5am.

If the shit hits the fan, it's a big deal. Our working week doubles at least.

It isn't all about what you see.

Education. My mate (surgeon) said to me 'I'm so glad I spent all those years at med school - otherwise I'd have had to work really hard.'

Experience. After 20 years' bone-splintering work, I have a specialised niche type of job - it's lovely, everyone wants to do it (and thinks they can). I work like a beast when no one is looking and I am fast, fast, fast at making decisions no one else could start on. I'm also constantly uploading facts, so you wouldn't think I was actually doing anything.

Point is, sometimes you can't see the frenzied paddling under the gliding swan when it comes to jobs.

you aren't necessarily paid for what you do but what you know. if you have been fortunate enough to receive an education and training and experience you may well not have to work particularly hard as much or as often as people without the education or training. that's just the unequal world we live in.

Being financially successful is a combination of work, luck/privilege and intelligence. How much of each is involved varies I think massively person to person. Some are an equal third of each. Others just rely on one factor massively more than the other. Certainly, some people just lucked out massively on the luck/privilege ingredient. Except for the ultrpriviliged set (Eton, private school etc) the majority of those who are making big money did probably bust a gut at some point, even if they are now cruising along.

Why is MN so full of people bragging about six figure salaries?

Shocking that a thread having a dig at high earners will attract.... errrrr.... high earners

My DH and I both earn about the same 6 figures. He works in a full on stressful environment, 60 hour weeks are not uncommon.

I work school hours, and take a lot of the holidays off. I pretty much suit myself.

We are both professionally qualified.

My DH is on a high 6 figures salary. He doesn’t work hard in the way someone doing something physical might. Or even the way he did in his twenties and thirties when he frequently worked 100+ hour weeks and 36 hours or more at a stretch catching 40 winks on the couch in the work lounge. But he’s pretty much never not working. Even when he’s pottering about in the kitchen his mind is mulling over the issues he’s responsible for. Every holiday is interrupted by work. Most weekends are, at least to a small degree, if he’s off sick he’s still working. I don’t think it actually justifies the sort of salary he pulls in, but he isn’t in any way work shy, though if you were cleaning our home (we don’t have a cleaner, though) you might see him at home sometimes appearing to be pottering around doing nothing.

He isn’t paid for the hours he puts in though (I suspect most holiday and weekend disturbances could be done away with with no impact on his job). He gets paid for the experience he’s built up (all those 100 hour weeks not to mention a PhD and a CV that started in his early teens) and the results he proves himself with.

Depends what you mean by ‘work hard’. My day to day job as a professional in healthcare isn’t anywhere near as draining and exhausting and mind numbing as the many roles I’ve had on NMW in retail, food service etc. but that’s because I’m paid not only for what I can physically achieve in an hour, but also for the knowledge I possess. Which I prove with qualifications. That were extremely difficult to achieve. That’s the thing with a lot of higher paid roles, it’s not just what you do but what you know, and to someone on the outside it can be difficult to see exactly how much somebody has had to learn and absorb and synthesise to get to that point and how that knowledge is utilised in the job. Whereas when I worked retail, the majority of people off the street could easily have done the same job with a couple weeks’ training. Doesn’t mean it’s not hard work but it’s hard work almost anyone could do pretty quickly, compared with spending years studying for professional qualifications.

And there’s the graft needed to climb the ladder. I wouldn’t consider myself a ‘high earner’ to most people. For the sake of the thread I’m on around £40k, worth sharing I think for context as on MN there’s a sense that loads of people are on £80k+ and that that’s what you need to be considered a high earner, whereas to me £40k is high given I used to be on £10k. But to get to this point I’ve studied and amassed the debt for a degree, a two year Masters, and a postgraduate diploma, spent ten years grafting in NMW jobs in call centres and retail and factories while studying and done years of voluntary work in the sector I wanted to get into. I’ve worked eighty hour weeks plus academic work on top (usually written between midnight and 2am!), seven day weeks for months and months on end, given up two full days per week to go volunteer in a prison, night shifts at my other voluntary job, taken on additional courses when they’ve been available. On top of a chronic pain disability, mental illness, losing a parent, other adverse life events many of us go through. So yes, now I agree my average week is nowhere near as hard as when I was working in Asda, because I have freedom, autonomy, a rewarding salary, good benefits, I’m mentally stimulated and feel emotionally rewarded by my job. But I had to do a lot along the way for many years that a lot of peers turned their nose up at (unwilling to consider giving up their weekends or evenings to work voluntarily or turning down a funded MA because they’d have had to work eighty hours each week to make ends meet) for being too difficult. And now I’m reaping the rewards of a well paid enjoyable rewarding job, but you wouldn’t have a clue what it took to get here unless I told you!

From 2003-2014 I mostly worked abroad on a salary ranging from (by UK standards) poor to average. However, it was always enough to live on comfortably and the short working weeks (maybe 15-20 hours a week) gave me loads of time to develop skills, build a reputation and formulate plans for career advancement. I am now a very high earner after one such plan paid off. My conclusion: having time available to think and plan is one crucial ingredient in success. Some people can turn their fortunes around while slogging out an exhausting 50 hour week etc, but it takes something pretty special to do that I’d imagine. Some very privileged people get that time to plan (and go on proverbial wild good chases) thanks to family wealth and connections. For most, however, we have to sacrifice other stuff to get a glimpse of it - eg, move abroad, live on the breadline for a year or two.

I’m a high earner. My sister is a cleaner and earns NMW.

I work a lot harder than her. She seems to spend every day at work planning on how to maximize her sick leave/annual leave. If she finishes work at 2pm, she has her coat on at 1.55pm and is watching the clock tick down. She spends a lot of time bitching about her employers, and how she’s going to tell them what she’s “entitled” to. She used the word “entitled” a lot.

We’re educated to the same level, raised by the same parents, access to the same networks etc.

I get on with stuff. I’ve been working since I was 17. I worked exceptionally hard until I hit about £80k, then I was able to take a step back and focus on leading a team. I’m now the only person in the country who does the job I do. My work patterns vary depending on what’s happening, but I don’t usually do crazy hours any more. I do work hard though. Every day, 4,500 people are directly impacted by the decisions I make, and about 5m are indirectly impacted. I’m paid to take on that accountability.

So, you’re right OP, some high earners don’t work all that hard. But some low earners don’t either.

Does a CEO work as hard as a nurse? Sometimes, yes. A CEO in a trust has usually done their fair share of shifts, additional qualifications, additional hours but have worked hard enough to move up the ladder.

They don’t clock off after their shift; they have 24 hour responsibility and are the one who faces select committees or even juries when things go wrong. They aren’t even off duty on their holidays.
They might be supporting another trust and working four days on site from 6am to 9pm but the cleaner sees them when they’re catching up at home on a Friday.

Could the A&E nurse do the CEOs job? No, not without additional experience, qualifications and knowledge. Yes, if the put the graft in now they might get there in twenty years. It doesn’t happen overnight. It takes sustained effort. Nobody but the A&E nurse is stopping them working towards a Director of Nursing post and on to CEO. Others have done it.