To think that SOME high earners don't work that hard?

[Usernamemcname]

I'm a domestic cleaner. The people I clean for are usually quite well off, five bedrooms in a posh suburb of an expensive city. They are often in whilst I clean, sometimes they come back whilst I'm here.
I see a lot and I know they are in quite high paid jobs. Yet they always seem to be 'working from home' also known as fannying about the kitchen a lot and playing X Box. A lot of them either start late (10am so they miss the traffic) and finish early. One dad picks his daughter up from school every day even though his wife is at home!
I was always told that you have to work hard to get what you want in life, so why do I have to work two jobs whilst my partner works 45+ hours and we just scrape by? What have these people done to be so lucky? They're not old, seem around my age, what jobs do they do and why can't I do them, I have a degree.
Life just seems unfair sometimes. Unless it's a doctor, I'm sure I could have a crack at it.

I'm not moaning about anything and have a perfectly good attitude to life. It still doesn't make the fact that earning lots of money is 90% luck untrue. People just want to deny their own luck and privileges for some reason. Be glad you were lucky.

Edit: daughters not dads! #bendypadre

Martin Lewis said in a talk to students that you need 4 things to be successful in life:

1 Talent
2 Hard work
3 Focus
4 Luck

As he says, you can have the first three in bucketloads but if number 4 doesn’t come your way you can still “fail”.

blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2017/08/martin-lewis-four-things-need-successful/

People are always blind to their own good fortune...I suppose the people who argue that luck has nothing to do with it would still be high flying superstars if they were born into famine stricken Yemen and had their families blown to bits. Or are they too good to be born into such conditions?Because the world is fair 🙄

I know mega earners who work stupidly hard to the detriment of their health and family, but most don’t work that hard. And dare I say it, if you hit a senior level with some semblance of work life balance intact then you are doing it right.

I have almost doubled my salary in the past 2 years, after 10 years of salary stasis. I jumped ship twice to chase the money. I essentially get paid more because I have a huge, deep industry knowledge and contacts which I now use to help my new start up company. I have good balance, can work flexibly, I travel less.

I suppose I also am now the one in charge. The buck stops with me. I get paid well because I am willing to be the one answering to the boss when the shit hits the fan. I get paid to regularly absorb crap top down and bottom up.

But I love my job, I haven’t had the easy ride that many people whose parents are better connected have had. In the early days it was frustrating trying to land just one unpaid internship that I couldn’t afford to do, whilst waitressing. Meanwhile others had parents who could open doors. But I battered away. I don’t earn as much as those other people, but I do better than most.

For some reason most people in positions of privilege don't like to admit that their privilege helped them get where they are. Even though it's basically unarguable to suggest otherwise.

Maybe because people don't even know what is and isn't privilege anymore. It's gone crazy.
I've had this as 1 example.
-foreigner "You don't know your privilege! Not anyone can speak x languages!"
Yeah. Privileged af with foreign surname and foreign education. Sure. And not the desirable foreign btw. Plus there is literally nothing stopping people from learning another language (unless disabilities are in play of course). Nothing.

All the discussions about privilege go as follow.
Example of owning house.
-You don't know how privileged you are to have secure housing!
-Well I did work 80 hours a week to save for deposit.
-Ehm. That's a privilege! Many people can't.
-I did spend months looking for jobs which would fit into it. Anyone can.
-No! You are privileged to know how to write a cv.
-I googled it.
-Well you are privileged to have the drive to do it.
-Didn't have much choice, did I
-Well you are privileged to realise that you need to do this. Not everyone does.
And so on. And so on.

And this happens with EVERY single thing when someone has something better than some others.

Absolutely everything is either privilege or luck apparently. Which seriously drives me crazy. It makes me feel like I actually haven't achieved anything myself🤷 It's all just luck and mystical privileges.

Can you tell me my privilege that I am unaware of?

Ummm, I don't know you? But anyway, we're not talking about individual exceptions (which of course occur in both directions!), we're talking about the general trend.

In other words, only an idiot would try to claim that privilege doesn't exist and doesn't have a huge influence on who ends up where. But lots of people in positions of privilege try to do just that.

I think it’s more about the value put upon certain professions: the world of ‘celebs’, of footballers, of traders, people who don’t have a mortgage because they’ve inherited money....

As a country we don’t value our most basic needs and those that in some capacity provide for the most needy. The fact that they can afford to employ you to clean their mess is a statement of how imbalanced the world is.

I have a cleaner who probably thinks like you do.

However, she hasn’t seen the last 10 years of my life where I’ve prioritised nothing but work in order to earn what I do now.

She didn’t see me put off having a kid until it was seemingly too late in order to get where I needed to be financially.

She never watched me with my head in my hands at 2am, falling asleep at the screen trying to get my head around something or putting together materials for a client who can’t remember my name (still bitter!)

She has no idea of the sacrifices I made to learn my craft and make myself valuable.

Her decision was to take a different route to mine. I was born working class and went to a school up the road from her, we’re from the same stock.

You have made a choice to be a cleaner and I assume you had your reasons. I and many like me made the choice to do something different based on the financial benefits it afforded and we walk our paths accordingly.

@Treesthemovie thank you. I feel like you get it. I admit that I have it easier than those who are non native English speakers, or those from particular cultures that the U.K are suspicious of. That doesn't mean I didn't work hard but I haven't had to work as hard as someone from Iran or a traveller background. Why do people find it so hard to admit their privilege? It doesn't mean you haven't worked hard!

I wouldnt argue luck has nothing to do with it. But I would say luck isnt the biggest factor.

As I have said. I was lucky a head hunter spotted my CV on mine last year. But the CV wasnt there, up to date, with lots on it, in a format that appeals, with a cover letter outlining my career and plans for the future, by luck though.

That's a document that's taken 20 years to make. If I had not have gone to the effort with it and maintained it, ensured I did things that added to it, improved it etc the head hunter would never have found me.

Almost everyone has some kind of privilege that makes them start off from a better position than another person without that privilege.

It’s not black and white.

You’re in a country where there’s great scope for social mobility, you had access to education and are therefore literate, you had parents/a parent who ensured you were fed and clothed as a child to be able to grow, you were able to go to university and choose what to study. You have access to healthcare whatever your income, and you have access to contraception and live in a society where you can support yourself without needing to marry a man. You already have enormous privilege compared to many.

I do think about issues such as privilege, a LOT. I could sit here and say well, I was born on a council estate to parents without any education beyond school, who divorced traumatically when I was a child. Went to shitty schools where being smart meant you got bullied and working hard made you a target. Failed almost every A Level due to mental illness and self harm, lost a parent to addiction young, siblings in jail. Those things are true! But I also was lucky enough to be born in England, in the late 1900s, to two parents who loved me, to have access to schooling, healthcare, to have had a bed to sleep in each night and a roof over my head and to have never gone hungry. Surely privilege is a matter of perception? It’s intersectional. You can be disadvantaged by being born an ethnic minority in a racist society. While also maintaining the advantage of being male, or receiving an education etc.

Nobody is saying privilege isn’t a factor but ultimately understanding that doesn’t really change where you are at the moment or the hard work it’s gonna take to pull yourself up.

I think it is very easy to be unaware of one's own advantages.

DH's: White, male, middle-class, academically talented in STEM (and everything else!). Emigrated to NZ, and as a result was ahead and notably talented academically. Very loving and supportive parents. Encouraging teachers, who encouraged him to go for the scholarship. Parents supported him through uni so he had no student loan.

He knows and understands this.

However, all of that capital could have easily been squandered. He combined his privilege with hard work.

@Getterfeck my choice to become a cleaner was based on not being paid for 28 more days and having no money due to my tax credits being stopped. It wasn't to facilitate a burning desire to spend my Saturdays cleaning someone's oven for £20 whilst I listened to them play with their children in the garden.

I would disagree with 90% luck. I’m doing well because I was very focused and worked hard. My brother and sister chose a different paths, both dropped out of school, my brother does shit zero hours jobs from time to time, he is in his 30s. My sister finally started uni 8n her late 30s. We all had the same parents and same start in life.

I don’t deny luck and privilege play a very big role though. It is my own experience that makes me a passionate of Career Ready, which supports the kids who may not have so much luck on their side.

Yeah. I earn about 150k for a 9-5 job. I do have to work evenings and weekends as well, but basically only if I've fucked it up in the first place. I commute four hours a day on top which makes it a bit crap, but I'm well aware that I am very lucky. I worked insanely hard at school from the age of 11 and got into Oxford, and to be honest that is the main reason I'm in my job. Certainly don't get to swan in at 10 or pick the kids up from school though.

@CrystalShark I'm sorry to hear about your mental health struggles? Were you in touch with any sort of mental health outreach team? Were you in a in patient facility? I only ask because I love what I do and I'd genuinely like to stay doing what I do but I might have to leave because £9 is not enough to live well on. What if every HCA/ NHS worker took all this advice and left? I mean, the nurses already are. We'd have to replace them. Wouldn't it be better to distribute wealth more fairly so people like me could keep doing what they loved and yet get paid enough to live on? Wouldn't that be great?

Some high earners have spent a lit of time studying, havibg qualifications and experience for their high salaries. Two in my family spent years doing so and have been fortunate to find roles that do pay them well. Their jobs are not without stress though. A lot of high earners are self employed. If you feel you can do the same, give it a go.

How much someone earns and how physically hard they work aren't necessarily linked

My job isn't physically difficult, but someone grafting hard earning minimum wage wouldn't be able to do it. I'm paid for the benefit of my expertise.

In other words, only an idiot would try to claim that privilege doesn't exist and doesn't have a huge influence on who ends up where. But lots of people in positions of privilege try to do just that.

Thats too different things though priviledge does exists. OP has quite a bit of it. I do in the fact that I appear white. That's helped me.

What hasn't helped me is my accent, the fact that I am originally from Derry. The fact that I am a woman. Below average education, mum was a single parent with a personailty disorder who believes women dont need educating and shouldnt work. Uni fees came in by the time I was 18 so i didnt go. Married at 20, to an abusive man. Divorced with 2 kids at 34 with an exh who couldnt be arsed with his kids and went self employed to avoid CSA.

I was lucky and priviledged to have 2 outstanding managers that i learned a great deal from. But i chased those learning experiences. Those managers also had 15 other people to manage who werent interested in learning. So was I luckier than my team mates? Or was it because I went after the opportunity?

I chose to maintain my career instead of being a sahm so I could, just about, afford wrap around care for ds and holiday club (dd is older and didn't require it when I became single). Am I lucky I had my career or was it a choice to pay the childcare fees and not be much better off to maintain my career?

Having a mother with a personality disorder means I am good at compartmentalising and 'reading the room's. Unfortunately I also suffer from PTSD due to the abuse I suffered and take medication for depression and anxiety. So lucky, my upbringing helped me?

I am lucky that I now have a very supportive partner who shares childcare despite the kids not being his. My, now best friend, who is a sahm helps in the holidays. But I also do a large amount for my best friend. We have a good relationship because we both our effort in. Same with my partner.

So yes, I have had luck, but I have also had to grab those opportunities when they come up. So, I disagree that it's mainly luck.

@Usernamemcname I do admire you work. My father works in a similar facilities after retiring. He finds it difficult yet rewarding.

But if you want to progress and earn more you need to plan. I hope you do achieve what you want.

Thats too different things though priviledge does exists. OP has quite a bit of it. I do in the fact that I appear white. That's helped me.

Yes they are two different things. I'm not sure why you quoted my post tbh.

The thread shows an awful lot of knowhow about what people do to get earn a lot. now you candiscount all of that and say it is all luck and I will always be poor because life is unfair so let's eat another bun before I go out to my minimum wage job because high pay is not for the likes of us or you can take action to earn m ore.

if you want to wallow in a despond that barring a revolution you will always be on low pay - that is fine. It leaves the field open to those of us who think we have agency and abilities to get on if we try. Defeatism only damages those who decide they have no options or ways out. Adopt that attitude if you like or try to get on - people have these choices. Obviously some have no legs or cannot see and have lots of difficulties etc but most people don't.
No way is getting on the UK 90% due to luck. It can be down to optimism. Not that many students would have made the 139 applciations I did or kept going after they failed interview num ber 24.... if you just assume things will go well you tend to keep trying and pick yourself up when you're down.

So we know uber works in the mental health field which is in fact a field a lot of my family have been in - my father was a psychiatrist., Is there something that can be expanded from that into a career such as an open university psychology degree? Or setting yourself up part time as a life coach?
(Saying some people in the financial serviecs industry are not very nice people is a bit much! You could have easily have also said "just as some nurses and some doctors are not very nice people"!!)

I'm a CEO and don't work long hours like I did in my early career. But I spend a lot of time working out complex strategy, solving people and work problems - and I take responsibility for all aspects of our business - from governance, to finance, risk, communications, operational delivery and stakeholder management. Dealing with government ministers, politicians, external experts, businesses and board members and staff.

I don't work long hard hours like a nurse on A&E or indeed like I did early in my career but I have to negotiate, present and persuade, find solutions and absorb a lot of stress. it is the culmination of a lot of years of experience and contacts.

No it's not that hard. But I couldnt have done this role at 30. And if I fail to deliver I will be out.

@Xenia did you not read my post? I'm not wallowing. I like my job. I find it rewarding. I want to keep working in that field. I'd like to earn just a bit more money. Which part of this is unreasonable?
The fact is a lot of people earn lots more than they need to be comfortable and they could never ever spend it all even if they tried. That's so wrong!