To think that SOME high earners don't work that hard?

[Usernamemcname]

I'm a domestic cleaner. The people I clean for are usually quite well off, five bedrooms in a posh suburb of an expensive city. They are often in whilst I clean, sometimes they come back whilst I'm here.
I see a lot and I know they are in quite high paid jobs. Yet they always seem to be 'working from home' also known as fannying about the kitchen a lot and playing X Box. A lot of them either start late (10am so they miss the traffic) and finish early. One dad picks his daughter up from school every day even though his wife is at home!
I was always told that you have to work hard to get what you want in life, so why do I have to work two jobs whilst my partner works 45+ hours and we just scrape by? What have these people done to be so lucky? They're not old, seem around my age, what jobs do they do and why can't I do them, I have a degree.
Life just seems unfair sometimes. Unless it's a doctor, I'm sure I could have a crack at it.

I did and had to apply to 139 firms over about 6 months and had 25 interviews before getting my first job in law (I was probably bad at interviewing or something!)

Im using that as an example for ds1

Someone once said to me that as you move up in a career you are paid for what you know not what you do. I think there is some truth in that (though it is not the whole story).

Hello everyone, thanks for replying. I didn't mean to sound dismissive or self pitying. It is apparent that I have taken some bad advice or made some mistakes at some point in my career. I'll list it here so you can tell me where I went wrong (incredibly outing)
1.) went to a primary school in a deprived area. Was told I was very clever and able. Mum went to uni so many advantages such as books in the house and frequent trips to Europe to visit family and friends. Mum worked for local council. Single parent.
2.) secondary school was a massive shock as the catchment area covered a more affluent area so there were lots of kids who were smarter and posher and had better lives. Rebelled and nearly was expelled. Managed to pull together for GCSE's. Got ok results 3 A's, the rest B's and C's.
3.) went to a good college, left with A,B,B.
4,) went to a local uni as the course had modules on postcolonial and black British writing rather than just old dead white guys. Might have been a mistake but I wanted to read books written by people who looked like me rather than just study Shakespeare.
5.) left with an upper 2:1. Applied to lots of graduate schemes that appealed to me. I wasn't ever going to be cut out for finance or I.T but I was interested in getting into marketing, retail or the charity sector. Up until then I had only worked in a local coffee shop for 6 years and volunteered at Oxfam and at a cat and dog rescue centre.
6.) Got a job as a trainee manager in a well known high street coffee chain. Was excited to start at the bottom and work my way up and could see that the regional managers appeared to be on good money. Unfortunately the way the system worked was that each store could have up to three trainee managers each waiting to open their own store and with expansion not happening very quickly due to the recession, it didn't look like that would happen anytime soon. There were six trainee managers ahead of me by the time the new store opened.
7.) left to work in a call centre for a well known insurance company with the intention of working my way up to being an underwriter. I could tell in the first five minutes it wasn't for me. Horrible, money grabbing people who drank at lunchtime and were very cruel to their Indian co-workers who didn't want to go out on a Friday. Proper lads culture. I quit after a month.
8.) Went to work as a receptionist in one of the top dentists in Bristol. Very well paid for a 22 year old. They wanted someone with a degree who could chat about Homer's Iliad with patients whilst they waited. Although I enjoyed the wage, there was nowhere to move up as practice manager was dentist's wife and not likely to go anywhere. Left to teach English in Spain as I craved a bit of excitement.
9.) Came back and worked in cafe again after job fell through. Became very desperate for a steady wage so took a job as a manager of a beautiful delicatessen in walking distance to my house. Absolutely loved it but no career prospects, all of the employees were my age and had degrees.
10.) Fell in love and had two children. Went back to work after maternity both times.
11.) Went to work at a local dentist for the best wage I have ever had (12 p.h) as a head receptionist. As it was really local and across the road from an outstanding nursery I thought I would be happy but it was the most soul destroying job. No work to do at all. Husband and wife team, horrible atmosphere. They actually sneered at those who said they couldn't afford a £70 check up. Even looked down on those with Denplan. No career progression as husband and wife team (again!)
12.) Bought house in different area. Left boring job for fantastic rewarding job in NHS on £3 less per hour. There is at least the hope of progression although the work loss is staggering compared to the private sector. Struggling financially so do part time cleaning. Really don't know if I can retrain at this stage, two part time jobs and two under fives. Would love to be a social worker but there is placements and would have to live as a student again. It's not something financially we can do at this moment in time.

Obviously I've made some silly choices and I've tried to get a 'proper job' but I seem to choose with my heart and not my mind. I guess maybe that doesn't give me the right to judge what others do or haven't done. I still believe that there are some (the minority) who have worked no harder or longer than I have and still end up on 50K.

Sorry for the terrible spelling and grammar, I'm writing this in the loo and manager must think I need some more fibre in my diet!

Most of these jobs start as a corporate slave (I am not exaggerating when I say some people on high flying jobs sleep at work, some forms have actual beds in their offices) and then get more relaxed (time W use at least) as you climb the ladder. In other ways their jobs will be harder. If they screw up their firm might suffer a huge blow (and they be fired), they might be struck off from their profession or they may even end up facing jail time. Otherwise many will have their own business having risked capital and put in a lot of effort early on and are now reaping the rewards. Usually the hard work is put in early on studying hard or taking financial risks before maturing into a position of expertise and responsibility. Nobody gets maid megabucks without working hard or taking big risks. Usually both.

Use, that is very interesting and thnk you for posting it. Up to your stage 4 you and I were fairly similar, similar GCSEs (O levels in my case), A levels although mine were AAB and the best in the school (I was in the NE)

Going to the local university may have been the first mistake unless it was Cambridge or a top 10 one. I was rejected by Durham and Bristol and went to Manchester having put myself in for 3 x 3 hours of scholarship examinations which hardly anyone sat and I won one (it was about £50 so hardly helped but looked good on the CV).

I got a 2/1 too and a fairly high one - best in the year in some subjects with prizes awarded. I read law. The fact you read English would not have stopped you going into something like law afterwards.

It is hard to give you advice now and some peopl emake a fortune setting up a business even with no qualifications (even lawyers do nto earn that much compared with many of our clients who own their own companies - we are just a service to them)

Could your chidlren's father help eg I worked full time (and you have two part time jobs) and my chidlren's father moved hundreds of miles to follow my legal career (he's a teacher). May be could do more childcare or something like that?

Could you start a business selling some kind of consultancy service relating to what you k now about your NHS job if that does not breach your NHS contract? Eg my sibling ( a doctor) is a full time NHS employee but does a lot of work on top of that which is permitted for doctors.

[Rufus, it may be slightly unfair on your son though, as when I had to apply it was either a paper application form or covering letter and CV. I have a photo from the year of 15 envelopes all ready to post, the latest tranche of applications. Although it took a long time and at one stage I was up and down to London for interviews sometimes 2 in a day, it did not take the 5 hours it can for some law firms today. In fact so time consuming is the process that Clifford Chance has just announced it has reduced the initial time to apply to 90 minutes. I didn't have to do psychological on line tests and that kind of thing.]

Dillydallyingthrough she doesn’t sound like much of a friend!

Well done to you, seriously. I love to read stories of women who’ve managed to claw their way up professionally, and to see examples of where a lot of hard work initially pays off in the end. I’m in a similar position and I still pinch myself sometimes that things did pay off and it worked out how it did. I grew up in poverty on a council estate going to some really, really shit schools, had a lot of adversity to overcome (as so many of us), we’re expecting our first child atm and it’s one of the things I’m proudest of that we’re able to bring him into a financially secure environment, stable marriage, educated parents, we can provide opportunities for him that cost money if he shows an interest, etc. I think every parent wants better for their child than they had (my parents were amazing for the first twelve years of my life, I love them to bits, but we did struggle a lot financially and therefore practically and it was very difficult), and while I can only hope to be half the mother my own late mum was to me, I feel incredibly proud that DH and I have worked hard and waited and put everything possible in place so that our first baby is coming home to the best possible environment we can give him.

I work from home quite a lot. I'm on 50 k but not super high earning. The milkman keeps sneering 'are you working from home again'. The thing is I design programmes that bring millions in to a university. I'm quite often sat there at 4 am working out how to get round problems. If things fail. It's my neck on the line. Just because I don't clock in does not mean I don't work and in reality I'm probably doing far more hours than you or my sneery milkman!

Hours worked vs payment are rarely linked unless you are paid by the hour.

To the OP, could you do my job as well as me? I'd suggest not otherwise my employer would hire you and not me. The value I add for my employer boils down to 20 years worth of contacts I have relationships with and 20 years industry experience / reputation - you can't short cut those two things.

It's like an airline pilot. In a normal flight it's not that hard or stressful. When something goes wrong unexpectedly... that's when they earn their money to problem solve.

Same for me. On an easy day it's piss easy because the business is humming along doing its thing. When something happens though and decisions need to be made that could cost the business £m / hundreds of jobs.. it's me that has to make those decisions and the buck stops with me. That's really what my business is paying me for. It's not bothered where I am or what I'm doing 8am Monday morning.

Sorry, just saw your update. You’ve basically just been flitting from place to place based on what you want to do and not taken any positions with much responsibility. That’s why you aren’t eating much. The people who haven’t worked hard than you but earn more are the ones who take high responsibility jobs where their client could end up dead or bankrupt.

A lot of highly paid people are in demand (and hence higher paid) because of their experience, especially if they have broad experience in a particular discipline such as law or tax.

Whilst they are gaining general experience, someone job-hopping from industry to industry isn't really picking up industry-specific experience. Whereas, job-hopping in the same industry is giving you a broader experience of that industry.

Same with climbing the greasy pole. Far better to job hop from lower to higher positions in the same industry rather than hop up the ladder from one industry to another.

You need a certain amount of stability - chose an industry and work your way up within it. You're then far more likely to reach higher levels or if you don't want that, then at least find a comfortable niche.

Hopping from being, say, a waitress, then to shop work, then to cleaning, then to care work, isn't actually getting you up the ladder.

My job is well paid (not 6 figures currently but not crazy far off) and my job is a doddle. I work from home. Dress and shower when I fancy it. Never have stress. See my kids at lunch and whenever they need me. Can chill and take my work at my own pace. I’m very very lucky and aware that my cleaner must think I’m lazy and privileged.

But my path here was unusual and involved a lot of hard work and risks. It’s paid off though and that’s mostly luck.

@Velveteenfruitbowl but how did they get those positions in the first place? That's what I'm asking. I've gone into jobs where I have been very willing to work hard, late, retrain but I haven't found a job that has allowed me the opportunity. Where are these jobs and where are they advertised?

As said by many, high earners are usually so because the pool of people who can replace them in that job is more limited. It's not about working hard necessarily.

Having said that, most high paying jobs in sectors like law, finance, consulting require you to have a very good undergraduate degree and often a post-graduate as well just to get the entry level basic job.

The people who haven’t worked hard than you but earn more are the ones who take high responsibility jobs where their client could end up dead or bankrupt.

Exactly. As an accountant, the advice I give can either cost or save my clients thousands of pounds (or tens of thousands of pounds).

Only yesterday I saved a client from himself by telling him a different course of action from the one he was about to take, that would save him around £10k in tax - for an hours' meeting. Someone who wasn't a qualified chartered accountant, and without 35 years of varied small business accountancy experience may not have known how to do that. In fact, it was his book-keeper who told him a different approach and he just wanted a sanity check from me - her method worked a decade ago but she didn't know what she didn't know in that the various laws/reliefs had changed over that time.

They wanted someone with a degree who could chat about Homer's Iliad with patients whilst they waited

OP, I think it's one of those things where if money is your driver, you can work your way up to a six figure salary and perhaps not feel like you're changing the world but can have a pretty comfortable life financially (notwithstanding the non-stop hours, demanding clients, etc).

But it doesn't sound like it's money that drives you and I think one of the reasons you're you're not earning a banker's salary is because you wouldn't be happy as a banker and would find it soul-destroying. (For the record, I know quite a few BAME city workers who have had similar backgrounds to you, although most have no DC).

I think you should look more into the social work route and see what options there are for people in your area as there is likely some support for re-trainers. It's not too late to retrain so just work out where you want to be and go for it. It might require shaking things up a bit at home and the family making some sacrifices.

But I don't think what's bothering you is that other people earn more for less work - I think you're not happy with where you've ended up and you don't feel like you have the fulfilling career you want. Which is great, as that's something that you have the power to change.

@Usernamemcname

There's plenty of money in domestic / commercial cleaning.
If you want to earn more the why not put your time and efforts into landing contracts / hiring others and building your own business?

but how did they get those positions in the first place? That's what I'm asking. I've gone into jobs where I have been very willing to work hard, late, retrain but I haven't found a job that has allowed me the opportunity. Where are these jobs and where are they advertised?

My first job was never advertised. I wanted to be an accountant, so just wrote a load of letters to local/small accountancy firms. I got a few interviews and got an offer on very low pay from a pretty crap small firm, but it was a job. Not a pleasant couple of years but I stuck at it to gain experience. After a couple of years, I used that experience to apply for, and get a slightly better job in a better accountancy practice, then once my foot was in the door, I asked about moving into other departments to broaden my experience, which they did after a year or so. Then a couple of years later, rinse and repeat, used my 4/5 years experience and broader knowledge base to get a better job in a bigger firm. And so it went on.

You need a plan and to stick at it. Sure, like dating, you'll kiss a few frogs along the way, but you just follow your plan, move around a bit, but with the overall plan still in mind and don't keep changing direction. Sooner or later you find an employer where you can flourish. All about perseverance and an eye on the bigger picture.

OP I had a similar start to you. Clever kid at the local council estate primary and secondary. Got bullied relentlessly for that. Went to the local uni as my parents could never have afforded digs elsewhere.

Got a good degree in French/History. But this is where we differ maybe as I very quickly realised that my degree really didn't equip me for a good job so I did a postgrad in IT. Still couldn't get a graduate entry job so took very basic job answering IT calls in French to get me in the door.

IT wasn't for me. Still isn't really but I stuck with it. Worked my way up. Pushed myself and changed roles every couple of years. 22 years later and I'm reaping the rewards of a great salary and bonuses. It was damn hard though. Some of the roles really pushed me out of my comfort zone. Some had a lot of travel. I work from home now and drop and pick up my kids from school every day. It probably looks like I don't work that hard but like PPs have said I'm constantly available due to bloody smartphones and ultimately what I do brings in tens of millions for my company.

@Usernamemcname they’re in law firms, banks, consultancy firms, accounting firms, investment funds etc. They’re advertised on jobs sites, in unis or not at all (you have to go to the firm’s website directly to find them). They tend to have very early application dates and often long recruitment procedures. You need to use initiative to find opportunities and really pursue them if you want the best ones. You have to accept that you most likely won’t be doing a fun job which is easy to get on with (too many people want to do those so they tend to be low paid). Something has to give. You can either have a highly competitive, stressful (emotionally stressful as well as generally stressful quite often), well paid job that required years of training (probably involving a lot of rather dry subject matter) which was very difficult to get into after being reject from a few hundred other similar jobs and then difficult to keep. Or you can have a fun, low stress, clock in and clock out job which you got after responding to one add on a job website.

Thank you. I feel like since explaining my background, the comments have been less critical. I'm not unhappy that people earn more (money can't buy happiness) my query is that I worked hard (and still do) and why hasn't it paid off?
Those from lower economic backgrounds often lack guidance and career advice. My bestie went to Oxford (not Oxford Brooks before you ask) and she now works as a NatWest cashier. I don't know why we struggle after graduation. I think it might be linked to the expectation vs the reality. Uni is great but there is so little in terms of career advice. I sat down for half an hour with my tutor and said 'I want to get onto a retail graduate scheme' and he tried to convince me to do his Masters in Postcolonial Prose, which was low in numbers. No one told me how to write a great application, how to interview, how to get your foot in the door. Same with my bestie, she was unemployed for nine months after Oxford, tried to get into theatre, the charity sector, work in research. She had two interviews in that time!
There really needs to be more encouragement for those who don't have the connections or the stable home environment where you spend lots of time applying to positions. My main focus after uni was getting a job so I could pay my rent. After that I was working 50 hours a week at the busiest Caffè Nero in Bristol so didn't have much time for applying. Not blaming anyone just explaining why it's not always easy to get out of the cycle of poverty.

I'm sure my cleaner thought this about my DH and me!

I earn very well, but I spent 5 years after university sitting some of the hardest professional exams around to qualify in my profession.

The thing about my job is that the work isn't evenly split across the year. At financial year end work is totally crazy, and crazy to a certain extent at quarter ends. The rest of the year can be quite quiet and fairly stress free.

@Velveteenfruitbowl thank you. And I really mean that. You have just told me more than anyone in any job centre, career guidance office, family member has ever told me. Why isn't this better advertised? Why aren't they telling kids this at college? Why have I had to tell my cousin to think twice before going to uni to study film if she ever wants to buy her own house? Why are we still telling kids to just study the fun subjects for as long as they can; knowing full well they'll end up in Topshop?

Uni is great but there is so little in terms of career advice.

We're looking at Uni's at the moment for my son, and one of the criteria we're looking deeply into is careers advice, how well the uni links with industry/employers, etc., and it's quite surprising to see the difference with some having really good links with employers and others seemingly offering nothing but pointing students towards websites etc.

Only last week we were at his school parent's evening and talking to the sixth form head - when we mentioned we were looking at career destinations for unis and courses etc., she just scoffed and said he should be going to the uni he likes best and doing a course he likes best, as "there's plenty of time to think about careers once he graduates". Never heard such a load of crap advice!

At the uni open days, we seek out the careers departments, careers talks, etc., - some have been literally little more than a couple of staff in a small office in a corner and didn't really have much to talk about, whereas others have their own buildings, loads of staff, loads of meeting rooms, etc and were proudly displaying timetables of weekly talks/sessions where big employers were coming in to give talks and hold drop-in sessions.

How did they get these roles? Picking smartly. I was good at maths and art but knew art would pay peanuts. My mum told me which degrees are unemployable and which ones will bring you ample jobs. Sometimes I dream of a creative career but don't want to earn 18k struggling to get work.

A degree means nothing nowadays - 50% of people get one. It has to be in a subject in demand, that lots of people can't do. I'm good at maths, know a lot of stats, work fast and companies need those skills. I don't need to work long hours because if me or my colleagues leave, it'll be hard to find replacements.

My friends with degrees like History, Psychology have to work longer hours for less pay in Central London, because their degrees and jobs are a lot more accessible and therefore competitive. They do have a good salary but have to graft more to get there and be noticed.