My dog bit another dog

[Lovemydogs11]

Ok so I have a little rescue dog from Romania. I have him him 2yrs 3months he is walked everyday and goes off lead. Today we was walking in our local wooded park and we was walking along a path with trees along one side and a lad with a spaniel walked past and his dog was in the trees with my dog. Suddenly his dog yelped and ran to owner and my dog had bit him on his side. My dog likes to chase so I dont know if his dog startled him and he chased it and grabbed its side but it was one puncture wound. I gave the lad my details. My dog had NEVER done this before. He will grumble and some dogs but never as much shown his teeth!! I am beside myself with worry he is such a loving little dog that plays and gets along with almost every dog he meets. The lad txt me saying dog had been to vets had stitches and antibiotics and they have contacted their insurance and he will let me know the outcome. I'm not sure what this means!!

Theres some total lack of understanding of dog behaviour here..

A dogs growl is the same as your voice saying 'hey, no, back off gimme space'.

To suggest that because a dog has growled once at another dog it is therefore dangerous is like suggesting that if you've ever asked someone to back off and leave you alone YOU are also dangerous..

Growling is communication, thats all, it does not signify that an animal is a danger!

We do not know if the OP's dog nipped the other dog, we know that the other dog has a wound. He could have been bitten by something else, he could have caught himself on something, he COULD have behaved extremely rudely to the OP's dog and not heeded a polite warning to back away, causing the OP's dog to nip in self defence.

If you choose to let dogs off lead and out of sight to play, as the other dogs owner did, then accidents may occur.

Details have been exchanged, the OP intends to do the right thing, no ones done anything wrong here.

As for the dog being dangerously out of control - that is not clear.

If the OP's dog recalled swiftly, then they were not out of control.
If the OP's dog was simply playing with another dog, that was not 'dangerous'.

'Dangerously out of control' applies when the dogs behaviour is dangerous to people or livestock (and another dog is not livestock) AND you can demonstrate that the dog was out of control ie, not responding to recall cues.

Nipping another dog as a result of an altercation between two dogs is not 'out of control' nor is it an offence.

My dh was taking our dog out two weeks ago. Out of nowhere a large dog ran at our dog and grabbed him by the throat. Dh got the dog off our dog and handed him to his owner.

Stupid woman didn’t put the dog on his lead and he went for our dog again. Dh ended up with a nasty scratch on his arm.

I’ve since seen this woman with her dog still off lead whilst walking our dog.

Be a responsible dog owner. Keep him on a lead.

Be a responsible dog owner. Keep him on a lead

You seem to be a little confused MrsCasares. What happened to your dh was a completely separate incident .

I agree with everything Medievalis said. So many people, with absolutely no understanding of dogs, so quick to demonise them on here, it's a joke.
OP are you absolutely sure that was a bite mark on the other dog and s/he wasn't perhaps pierced by a twig or branch when it was playing. You would surely have heard something if there'd been a scuffle wouldn't you?

Until you’re sure it’s been a total fluke.. which is not the next walk.. what about a long line to let him roam a bit but close enough to be grabbed if he starts. Could your dog be deaf/blind or have issues with one eye where it’s not seen the other coming and suddenly got a fright?
And unfortunately not all foreign rescues or local ones are honest.. early separation alone could cause issues with behaviour/social skills.

Thank you so much for the people that have understood.

It is completely out of character for him. I have had him to the vets today for a check up and he has an ear infection :( maybe that dog sniffed his ear? Which made my dog bite him as his ear is sore.

I did not know this at the time as my dog was showing no signs of an ear infection.

I agree, he will be put on his lead when another dog is in sight.

^And when another dog from out of sight runs near your dog?

The dog has shown signs of aggression and needs to be kept on a lead.^

This makes no sense. If another dog appears from out of nowhere it's irrelevant whether OPs dog is on a lead or not..

An ear infection would explain it. Lots of animals become intolerant when they're in pain.

Hope your boy is better soon

Stitches and antibiotics for one puncture wound on a dog?

My dog was bitten by another one, cost nearly £400. It caused a series of pus filled cysts which needed removing. Dog bites are usually full of bacteria.

You believe you are right so very pointless asking really. You aren't responsible, your dog bit another dog yet you are determined that he doesn't need to be on a lead, that you know him so well, but you've already said this was out of character, you say you'll put him in a lead when you see other dogs yet you've already said you couldn't see where your dog was, luckily it wasn't a child that you couldn't see him with. As you've said it's legal to have a dog off a lead in Britain when the dog is under control which this clearly wasn't. You're attitude is disgusting and a typical "my dog would never" but then it does.

HiJenny35

I see your another expert with big opinions!

Like I have said my dog been to vets and has an ear infection so he will have been in pain!!

I know my dog unlike you! Guess your just joining in with the rest of the 'experts' on here lol.

OP, you have posted for advice and yet you are being extreme in your defensiveness. Some of the posters have given you very sound advice, including seeing a trainer, paying the vet bills and working on your recall. Try listening.

OP as your dog had never shown aggression before there was no reason to keep him on a lead. As I was thinking about what I would do following that scenario, if it were my dog, I saw your post about your dog having had an ear infection at the time the supposed bite took place. That would make absolute sense.

I don't think your dog now automatically needs to be kept constantly on lead. If it were me I would clear up the infection, take my dog to a popular dog walking area, keep him on lead and ask other dog owners if your dog can say "hello" to their dog - all on lead. See how your dog reacts to the other dogs and take it from there. You'll know by how your dog reacts to other dogs whether he is likely to show aggression to other dogs, off lead.

The scenario MrsCasares describes is nothing at all like what happened here. This is the problem....posters see "dog bite" and liken it to their own experiences, whether it bears any resemblance or not.

You provided your details to pay for treatment needed. Thats more than most dog owners would do. You seem to be a responsible dog owner OP. I'm sure you will do the right thing by your dog. No responsible dog owner would allow an aggressive dog off lead to terrorise all other dogs. Flippin 'Eck the vets bills would be astronomical!

Good Luck! 🍀

I don't think you're at fault OP, but I do think you're responsible in the sense that you own the dog, the dog (maybe - as no one actually witnessed it) caused an injury to another dog and that cost a vet bill. I think a lot of people take fault and responsibility differently in situations like this. Something may not be your fault, but it's still your responsibility. You've accepted that responsibility and given your details and are willing to pay the vets bill.
I would think that both owners here consented as such to the dogs playing together off lead and out of sight as neither dog was recalled until there was an issue. To me, if I allowed my dog to play off lead with another that I didn't know, then I'd accept there's a)a chance my dog may get hurt and b) that I'd be responsible if my dog hurt the other one.
Have you contacted your insurance to let them know what has happened? If it were me I would, though as you've accepted responsibility they may refuse to pay out.
The ear infection could account for the out of character behaviour, but as you can't know that, I'd be making a plan so that you protect yourself from it happening again and you being seen as irresponsible because the dog has done this before and you took no reasonable action to stop it happening again. So back on a lead if another dog is in sight at the very least, and maybe a basket muzzle. It's not about you thinking that he's a Vicious monster or anything like that, it's about protecting yourself and your dog from future issues should they arise. As you can see on here, some people don't accept that dogs are living breathing creatures that make judgement calls, and like anything with a brain, sometimes they misinterpret information and react wrongly to a situation. Though really, no one is at fault, the responsibility for any damages does lie with the owner. And if your dog has bitten before, and you don't take steps to try and ensure that doesn't happen again, that could be seen as irresponsible.
As an example, I used to have a horse, some numpty let their kids climb all over the gate and feed him all sorts of shite and generally mess about on private land. The upshot was the gate broke and he escaped and made a beeline for a garden with some lovely lush grass in it. Ultimately even though I wasn't at fault, he was my horse and I was responsible for the damage he caused. It wasn't the garden owners fault the gate was left so damaged it didn't work, nor mine, but the people who damaged it. As they couldn't be traced, the damage to the garden was paid for by my insurance.
A bit shit that my premium increased but that's part and parcel of having an animal.
Your dog sounds like a normal dog, and behaved like a dog. If it were me I'd take steps to reduce the risk of it happening again, but I wouldn't be overly worried about the incident itself. A dog behaved like a dog, and you've taken your responsibility as his owner seriously and offered to pay for the vet bill for an injury caused by your dog. Don't think you deserve the kicking you're getting here at all!
Hope both dogs are better soon.

Hi TwopupsandaHamster and Crustytoenail

Thank you both for your replies. They are both great help and explain greatly.

I have been in touch with the owner of the other dog and he is contacting his insurance today and is going to be in touch with me to let me know the outcome. In the meantime my dog has ear drops and will be kept on his lead until the infection is cleared up. I take complete responsibility of what happened and I know as we couldn't see the dogs and one got bitten I am held responsible. I gave the owner my details immediately and havent once tried to make out my dog wasnt at fault. People on here really have no clue of how dogs act! They are so quick to judge and presume he is a vicious killer because of this ONE incident. The other dog is ok he is on painkillers and antibiotics so I'm sure in 1 weeks time he will have his stitches out and be back to normal.

In the meantime I am willing to pay the owner cash for the vet bill. If they want to go through insurance that's fine but I will offer a cash payment first in the hope it doesn't increase my dogs premium next year.

Both dogs off the lead but your dog caused the injury. You're liable.

PavlovaFaith

I know I am liable. Read my comments!

OP, you have posted for advice and yet you are being extreme in your defensiveness.

Erm .... no. The op is being balanced and sensible. The only extremes are coming from the anti-dog brigade. As usual.

If your dog is growling at other dogs it should not be off leash without a muzzle. Simple as that. I would imagine you have a vet bill heading your way.

One of my dogs has also bitten another dog off the lead, what you have to remember is that you know your dog. My dog is excellent off the lead, great recall and will NEVER approach another human or dog. Only cares for us and her ball. Plenty of times other dogs with no recall or with owners not paying attention will approach my dog and she will growl at them. We will call her and she will come back immediately, if that dog chooses not to listen to her warning and follow her they probably will end up with a nip or at least a real growl. Dogs are like humans, they don’t like every dog, some dogs are pushy and don’t understand social boundaries and whilst friendly this also means they haven’t been socialised well. Your dog might of warned this dog and it may well not of listened. I still let my dog off the lead without a muzzle but we take her to remote fields so human/ dog contact is practically zero. If you are worried maybe order her a harness with ‘dog nervous’ or something just so maybe owners are aware. Ask your vet for advice on what they think might have caused her to ‘snap’ even though if it’s 100% out of character I agree it was probably the ear + a pushy spaniel as they are rather playful! Mine hasn’t had an issue for over 3/4 years even when in contact with other dogs, infact the last time was a big puppy who had no recall and a lax owner and she did end up with a nip.

If your dog is growling at other dogs it should not be off leash without a muzzle. Simple as that. I would imagine you have a vet bill heading your way.

FGS the op KNOWS this and has offered to pay the vet bill and been in touch with the owner!!!

And are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that if a dog growls at other dogs it should be muzzled?!!! There are lots of situations where it's perfectly acceptable for a dog to growl at another. It's a totally reasonable warning response to other dogs. For example, my elderly dog will growl at any dog that pays too much attention to my very old dog. He knows she doesn't like it and will always see off any dog pestering her. Good for him I say.

I really think there is a script for lazy dog owners who let their dogs off lead without thought. It’s utterly amazing how many of these are “rescue dogs”. Indeed this one is a “little rescue dog from Romania” Do these people want a medal? It is also invariably the first time.

It is totally ignorant to believe that “in 1 weeks time he will have his stitches out and be back to normal”. Hopefully the injured dog will not be left with lasting issues that affect it’s behaviour around other dogs. Yes, some can shrug it off, others will be left with anxiety issues.

I hope a large vet’s bill will make the OP think a bit more in future.

Please don’t put your dog’s behaviour simply down to the ear infection which may be coincidental. Usually dogs with pain in their ears scratch and shake their heads. They may rub it on the floor or furniture. If it is Ieft they may develop an unbalanced gait with head to one side. The ear membranes are likely to be red and inflamed. There is usually also a associated distinctive unpleasant smell.

It’s not about being vicious. He growls at dogs. Keep him away from dogs. Simple.

The thing that leaps out to me here is was your dog not in eyesight for you not have seen what happened? So it's very difficult to to know what caused it. The other dog may have snapped first and yours snapped back?? Anything at all....

I'm all for well behaved dogs being off lead (I have 2 dogs) but I never take my eyes off them and they are trained to not to go far or out of my eyesight.

@Lovemydogs11
I think it’s best to muzzle and keep on a lead from now on. Say it happened again and they want the dog PTS. I know it’s a pain and he may not enjoy walks as much anymore etc. But I would, it’s happened once, there is nothing to say it won’t happen again.

I too have a Romanian, he was a street dog until he came over at 18months old. They are a different kind of breed entirely.
He is the soppiest thing in he world at home, but out and about, he is big, strong and has aggressive tendencies. I just don’t risk it.