To think circumcision for baby boys should be illegal if not done for medical reasons

[Tyarami]

I saw a thread on here a couple of days ago and it got me to wondering why on earth circumcision is still legal for infant males despite FGM being banned.

To me there is no difference, both practises are barbaric unless of course the circumcision is medically necessary. I'm talking about the parents and doctors who allow and inflict this because of cultural tradition.

Why is it ok to do this to an infant male even though FGM is illegal, what is the difference really? To me there is none and would be interested to hear from others about their perspectives.

AIBU to be of the opinion that parents and medical professionals should be prosecuted for inflicting this on infant boys who obviously cannot consent, because of cultural conditioning.

They can read can't they. Imagine.
My legs haven't worked properly since birth I have no trouble 'knowing what I'm missing'.

I don’t really understand your point here.

As I said on the original thread sometimes the pressure to is immense. It's taken till my grandparents were terminally ill for them to "get over" my decision not to circumcise my son. They finally got it when they were making choices about their care.

Every male in my life has been circumcised.

Some people don't want to go through the arguments for what is perceived to be a minor op and a tradition which predates Jesus. There isn't the same level of awareness around the effects of curcumcision in my community.

I obviously didn't agree but I can understand when people make their choices it can be between their family or their whole community and their kids penis on what is often perceived as a moral stance. Kinda "you're making a fuss over nothing" is the attitude you get. When you're in a Tight-nit family and community that's very difficult.

I spend a lot of time on forums and in groups talking about why I didn't as other mums in the community are shocked.

I'm in a very weird position with this because, I for religious reasons, would have to have my son (if I have a boy) circumcised, I am a Muslim, and Generally I do believe it is more hygienic. (Before my religious times, I have seen uncircumcised penises and frankly, I'm happy my husband is circumcised) However I also battle with the idea that why would god put it, if it was meant to be removed? I also feel like I wouldn't want to hurt my baby as well before the age he can decide himself!

It's a hard one

Well according to various sources, quite a few males in varying stages of maturity did get themselves circumcised in order to reduce the chance of getting HIV. Whatever you think of circumcision, it’s too simplistic to say it’s the same as FGM.

www.thecitizen.co.tz/news/Nearly-6m-circumcised-in-African-push-against-Aids/1840340-2395598-wnger6z/index.html

This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population.

There’s lots of studies showing that sensitivity is better when penises are left alone though. Individual men are unlikely to accept that their circumcised penises are in any way lacking though.

I don’t see it as just a “men’s health issue” though. Newborn circumcision is a parenting issue.

What are the implications within the family for the parents (and child) when a decision is made not to circumcise?

Would the child be treat differently or in some cases the parents and child ostracized?

Obviously I can't empathise, but i do sympathize with the parents who choose not to go ahead with the procedure and are then judged negatively of by the extended family. That must be very difficult.

Though that being said I would still not be able to succumb to the pressure and agree to it myself.

'But an man who was circumcised from birth will never know what they’re missing out on.'

'
They can read can't they. Imagine.
My legs haven't worked properly since birth I have no trouble 'knowing what I'm missing'.*'

What is it that you don't understand?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102/

The study mentioned above.

People are not saying it's a mens health issue

They are saying, if men wanted to stop it they could, because men make the rules.
Women need to fight for this, from a position of less power, when men themselves don't seem in general particularly fussed?
Makes no sense.

Also not going to happen in uk any time soon and there are other things to focus on.

If men want it changed they are better placed to do so. Is all people are saying and it's true.

Well according to various sources, quite a few males in varying stages of maturity did get themselves circumcised in order to reduce the chance of getting HIV.

Yes, but for men having unprotected, heterosexual sex in Eastern and Southern Africa.

Definitely worth having a discussion with your teen boy if they fall into that risky category of planning heterosexual, unprotected sex in Eastern and Southern Africa and not willing to wear a condom. Not really a justifiable reason to circumcise a baby boy, though.

All forms of bodily modification - circumcision, piercings, tattoos - should be reserved for adults unless medically indicated.

Empress summed up nicely what I was trying to say
It’s ALL wrong and should be illegal. Just because some of it isn’t as bad as the other then it doesn’t make any of it right.

And schnitzl

@Tyarami as I said up there, it took nearly 10 years for my family to get over it. They loved us both but we are moderate Jews but I'm still seen as the "stroppy" one

I have had both circumcised and uncircumcised partners. It didn't seem to affect their sexual pleasure in any way and as my first couple of partners were circumcised I thought that was normal. It came as a bit of a shock to see everything in its natural state later on in my life. Neither of them had the procedure for religious reasons. One of them was very posh and I think it was quite the done thing at that time - in the 50s. Neither of them was bothered by it in any way so not sure us women should be as concerned as we are with FGM which is appalling.

That is one study you have posted about less sensitivity

I’m quite sure if men in let’s say in a Muslim country where all the men in power are circumcised felt they were losing out on sexual pleasure (forget the idea of being cleaner let’s face it that’s secondary) then they would object to this procedure they wouldn’t be supporting the procedure being continued

sex for men and pleasure from sex has always been seen as a mans right in all cultures men collectively have supported that throughout history

I’m quite sure if men in let’s say in a Muslim country where all the men in power are circumcised felt they were losing out on sexual pleasure

Therein lies the issue though. If all the men in your hypothetical country are circumcised, where are the uncircumcised controls?

Ultimately, it’s not my penis so it’s not my choice.

Nolonger you keep saying this.

You still haven't explained why you didn't understand my previous comment.

Men are aware that other men are uncircumcised and can read or hear about how things are for them. They can read studies etc.

Yes it's their norm but they aren't completely cut off from the rest of the world, the internet where there area conversations like this one etc etc

That’s not the point I was making

It’s if men felt they were losing out on sexual pleasure they would not support the procedure

But they don’t feel that way

Are you saying that men lack inquisitiveness and. Or empathy, imagination? Seems harsh.

There is also the point that often it is people outside the group that does the practice these sees it as wrong and seeks to change. So uncut men should look at their cut brothers, see an injustice, and fight to change it.

That's not really happening is it.

That was on response to nolonger

*It’s if men felt they were losing out on sexual pleasure they would not support the procedure

But they don’t feel that way*

But loads of men don’t support circumcision. There’s been a massive cultural shift against circumcision in Australia and NZ over a generation. That’s been led by what was then a mainly male medical medical shift.

Agree. Also think ear piercing shouldn’t be allowed until an age where the child can consent - agree 12 is a good age.

Well when more men feel they don’t support circumcision then things will change

I don’t see that there is enough support from men who have been circumcised that changes will take place soon - not many seem to feel they have not benefited from being circumcised