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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry that my uncle hasn't paid Tax or NI for over 30 years!

85 replies

Tensixtysix · 02/10/2019 08:23

My uncle has recently fallen ill and as his only relative it seems to have fallen on me to take care of him.
He needs to go into a nursing home and at least he has his own home, so that will have to be sold.
But he then drops the bombshell that it's worth would end up all going to HMRC because since the early 80s, he's been self employed as a painter/decorator and never applied for it.
He hardly ever went to the GP or hospitals.
But now in his 80s, he needs help and now THIS!
He's doomed isn't he?

OP posts:
SoundsAboutRight · 02/10/2019 11:34

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RB68 · 02/10/2019 11:34

To be honest if he is losing capacity they are unlikely to be able to prove anything he will have no paperwork, no bank records etc etc I would leave well alone - its up to HMRC to sort that.

Key thing is getting him the care he needs, sorting out the house, sorting out the benefits and getting those things straight.

If once that is done you want to shop him you can - I doubt they would be interested if there is no hard evidence and the person has lost capacity, plus little or no chance of reclaiming anything much makes it not worth the cost of persuit

Rachelover60 · 02/10/2019 11:38

Could your uncle's house not be let? That would provide enough for nursing home fees and a bit of cash on the side.

katewhinesalot · 02/10/2019 11:43

Adult social care will be the best first stop.

SunshineCake · 02/10/2019 11:44

Do you really think his wife cleared him out? What happened to joint assets via the marriage? How didn't he know the money was being spent , presumably on keeping them both ?

Boysey45 · 02/10/2019 11:46

@Rachelover60, Care home fees can be anything from 700 plus per week. Its not unknown for some places to be over a thousand per week. Unless you have a big property in a prime location like central London renting it out wont fully cover costs.

Boysey45 · 02/10/2019 11:50

Don't worry OP, all this will be sorted out and it will be fine.
Get Social Services to assess him and they will help you with the rest.

PettyContractor · 02/10/2019 11:53

I don't understand. HMRC have not caught up with him in the past few decades, why would they catch up with him now?

I think any fear he has that HMRC will suddenly wake up to his existence because he goes into a home, sells a house of claims benefit are overdone. I doubt any of these things will set off any klaxons. There will be plenty of people who for perfectly legitimate reasons have no record of employment or paying tax.

I'd maybe avoid being his executor if one were ever needed, but it's likely his money will all go before he dies anyway, so no immediate need to worry about that.

LeekMunchingSheepShagger · 02/10/2019 11:55

Could your uncle's house not be let? That would provide enough for nursing home fees and a bit of cash on the side

It really wouldn't. A nursing home costs more per week than you would collect in rent per month.

RhinoskinhaveI · 02/10/2019 11:56

Why is this your problem OP?
you don't have a duty of care towards him, his situation, his fucked up life isn't your fault

RhinoskinhaveI · 02/10/2019 11:58

I think he's telling porky pies to manipulate you into being his nurse
Wise up!

PettyContractor · 02/10/2019 12:01

The proceeds of his house will go to the government anyway. Even if they are spent on his living expenses, they will mostly replace means-tested benefits he would otherwise have got. So whether HMRC catches up with him or not, it's not going to make much difference to his contribution to government finances.

Ponoka7 · 02/10/2019 12:24

PettyContractor
"I don't understand. HMRC have not caught up with him in the past few decades, why would they catch up with him now?"

Him going into the system via Social Care will bring it to the attention of HMRC. Owing money to the tax takes priority over everything else.

When i was working in Welfare Rights HMRC would hound people to the grave, they can seize property.

But you don't need to have paid NI to get care in old age. There is a minimum standed guaranteed.

OP, start with advice from Help the Aged, they will probably tell you to contact SS.

If there is a medical need for residential care, you don't pay full price, but they don't always tell you that.

There are specialist solicitors that deal with Social Care. They always advise to get your local MP involved.

Unfortunately sad DM pictures do not influence the HRMC. They like their pound of flesh.

IronicalCallSign · 02/10/2019 12:36

Aside from the rental not covering hefty care fees (unless it's an unusual setup like a prime family home in London contributing to care in say, rural Wales! Even then it probably wouldn't cover some)... Being a proxy landlord is no easy job.. there are repairs, insurance for building and optionally for damages by tenants, arranging viewings, possible upgrading so it's compliant with regs around fire alarms and such, background checks OR appointing & paying an agency to undertake it instead.. this isn't a quick fix even if his care costs are covered!

I've seen a lot of people (let's face it. 90% women) in families being expected to take on time and energy sinking care responsibility without any real understanding of what that looks like.

There's no way op should take on that responsibility lightly!

ExcusezMonFrancais · 02/10/2019 12:37

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IronicalCallSign · 02/10/2019 12:37

(even if the op could.. for all I know she works full-time so literally couldn't just start being a carer)

AnneElliott · 02/10/2019 12:55

Has your uncle never had a PAYE job op? If he ever has, then he will have some NI credits, and I think if you have 10 years of NI you can get part of a state pension, although it's only a quarter I think.

Boysey45 · 02/10/2019 13:12

@ExcusezMonFrancais. Its 35 years of NI for a full state pension. If you don't qualify for the full amount then you can apply for pension credit top up. Obviously this is dependant on your savings.
People who have never worked and always been on benefits get some type of NI credits which go towards the state pension.
You can get a pension forcast here www.gov.uk/check-state-pension.

ExcusezMonFrancais · 02/10/2019 13:17

Boysey45 Thank you! I'd no idea. Will look into it further. Thank you for the link!

Limer · 02/10/2019 14:03

Does he definitely need a nursing home, or could he get by with carers coming in regularly?

Does he have a will?

And you probably don't know the answer to all my other questions, but he can't have got a mortgage, so how did he buy his house? I guess he stopped working 20-odd years ago, what's he been living on since then? Are you sure he hasn't got wads of cash stashed under the bed? Did his wife work, did she get any pension? I don't believe she spent all his savings btw. In fact I'd take everything he says with a huge bucketful of salt, since he's a proven liar/fraud.

Original poster
Tensixtysix · 02/10/2019 15:51

Thanks for all your replies. To answer some of the questions...
He did live abroad for over 10 years before moving back to the UK.
Always busy and let his wife deal with the money side of things.

The house is in a bit of a state, hasn't been decorated for 30 years, the kitchen and bathroom are almost unusable.
No electricity upstairs
It's full to the ceiling with 'junk' and I can't even get in the attic.

I live over 200 miles away from him and really can't sort out the house myself. All I can think of is getting a clearance company in and for them to chuck everything out!
And then put it up for auction.
The garden has a massive tree in it that is touching the roof. That alone is going to cost £££ because it's a terrace house and everything would have to come through the house.
Can they make me look after him?
I've hardly talked to him in previous years and now because of his ill health, he names me as next of kin.
He's my dad's brother.
But I'm busy looking after him as he's elderly as well. I can't do everything!

OP posts:
Original poster
Tensixtysix · 02/10/2019 15:53

@Limer, it was his parents house, so no mortgage and his wife didn't work as she had bi-polar and self medicated.
She did have a gambling habit. That's how it all went.

OP posts:
Windygate · 02/10/2019 16:09

@Idontwanttotalk if the OP's uncle is in his 80s he may well have started work in the early 50s and paid both tax and NI (or whatever it was then). Only way to find out is to claim state pension and pension credit.
As for benefits, he will qualify for something. There are people who've never paid tax or NI perhaps because they never worked after leaving school or came into this country as older people.

Apolloanddaphne · 02/10/2019 16:32

No one can make you look after him. It sounds like social services need to be involved to undertake an assessment of his needs. They will then determine where he needs to be. They may be able to put in services to maintain him at home.

Boysey45 · 02/10/2019 16:36

You have absolutely no obligation to get involved with any of this. You can just leave it to Social Services to sort out.