Inconsiderate Neighbours

[Gorillaandme]

AIBU to think it would be polite if having loud building work done to prior warn next door neighbour (semi detached) of it taking place when they know I have a toddler? (As do they)

I have new neighbours who are completely renovating next door. I have already had issues with them drilling and hammering late at night. Once until 1am. My husband has already had a polite chat about this and they agreed to stop at 8pm. I'm aware most of the renovations are happening after work so that's why we agreed 8pm.

They are having windows fitted this week which we knew nothing about. My daughter (18 months) will only sleep in her pram and I have to push her around for an hour before she falls asleep. This week she has also been teething so getting minimal sleep. Yesterday I took her out and walked around until she fell asleep. I returned to the house shaking and the noise was horrific she woke up instantly and was really distressed. My dog who had been at home well I poped out had shit on kitchen floor because he was so scared and today isn't eating and got upset stomach from stress.

I ended up having to go out in car to let daughter sleep. I got no rest and I didn't have anywhere to take dog.

I'm just angry because if I had known in advance I could have arranged with my sister to go round there with daughter and dog. I'm not sure how long this will be going on either.

Do you think this is inconsiderate on there part or am I the unreasonable one? I don't know whether to say something because I don't want to fall out with them.

They can whistle now if they think I'm taking their parcels in!

This is the thing that gets me - a minimal amount of consideration and most people will be happy to take parcels and more (my neighbours and I share garden tools, I walk their dog, they take my baby). But if your attitude, like OP's neighbours, is so self-centred, people remember and act accordingly. It's short-sighted and dumb. And I speak as someone who did a renovation with a baby in tow.

I mean this kindly but I think you're overreacting a bit. Yes 1am is very selfish and they shouldn't have needed to be told but you have also admitted to having a sensitive dog and a difficult sleeping daughter. I have had some house renovations done recently and some traders don't give you much notice, perhaps your neighbours are working in full-time jobs, trying to coordinate workmen and just aren't as thoughtful in informing you what's going on as you'd like.I hope they finish the work quickly.

They could have informed the OP that the windows would be being fitted this week

yes, they could and they should.
If the builders don't turn up and plans change, that's not their fault, but they at least tried and show that they do have some basic manners.

It's worst when such people only redo the property before selling it and moving on, there's no inconvenience for them ever and they don't give a shit about anyone else.
But if they are planning to live there, why do you want to start on the bad foot? All it means now is that it's acceptable for anyone to be as noisy and inconsiderate as possible, that people won't bother moving a finger for next door - unless it's to make a certain gesture.

They can whistle now if they think I'm taking their parcels in!

I know someone who stayed very quiet when they heard their neighbours being burglared. They could have, at the very least, call the police but they didn't. It's extreme, but when shit happens, you would be grateful to have friendly neighbours.

If the works are ongoing and extensive- I'd assume there would be noise on a daily basis. I don't think it's unreasonable to not tell you the daily itinerary. Your child being a very poor and fussy day sleeper, probably would t be something I'd think off if I was to do some work for a few days, I'd maybe mention it, but if it's been going a while, it's obvious things are being done frequently in my mind.

Replacing windows doesn't make that much noise.

If the builders don't turn up and plans change, that's not their fault, but they at least tried and show that they do have some basic manners.

My point was that even if they had given the Op warning then it doesn't mean that they have helped her avoid the noise. Its just as likely that she came home after a week a way to find the windows still had not been fitted and then she would be more annoyed as she had not avoided the noise. Renovations are not always known for going smoothly and they probably don't want to say certain work will be carried out on X date at Y time incase it isn't and they inadvertently piss their neighbour off more as she's rearranged her day to accommodate the work.

I appreciate the neighbours might be rude but equally they may just want to finish the work as quick as possible in the hope the quicker they do it the less pissed off their neighbours will be.

Op you have my sympathy, in our last house the new neighbours decided to knock down the wall between the toilet and bathroom on Boxing Day, we had relatives over for a family meal and we couldn't hear ourselves spreak, play any board games, we had not been warned!
They surpassed themselves when they got in the machinery to remove the patio and driveway when my twins were 6 weeks old, The noise was unbelievable and the babies screamed all day. A little warning and I could have taken the Dc's round to my sisters for the day.
Its so selfish and very short sighted when considering your future relationship with the neighbours.

Replacing windows doesn't make that much noise.

Well... we had ours done recently. The originals were 160 years old. There was 30 minutes of hammering to get each out. We have 16 windows.

YANBU. It is polite and reasonable to ask people about this and to give them advanced warning. Our lovely neighbours brought us a bottle of wine when they were sanding the floors next door - and it really did mean that we weren't at all annoyed about the racket.

If work is especially loud and intrusive, and someone has young kids, it's doubly needed. It costs very little effort to keep lines of communication open and to ensure everyone is as happy as possible in the negative circumstances.

I wouldn’t even think to tell you if it was my house.
It’s during the day.

YANBU at all OP. It is called respect for others. All these people saying it will be over soon and you’ve got to put up with these neighbours. They also have got to get on with you. I think you are being extremely considerate to allow them to work until 8pm. Would be council recognised hours with me after their several late night working sessions. Everyone then knows where they stand and can get on with their lives.

so what it's during the day? Does it stop you being friendly and considerate?

Just re the regularly trotted out 7am to 11pm line - that is for more regular noise, it does not in any county provide for making any noise that you like between those times. The test for what is acceptable is quite wooly - eg it goes down the line of "what is reasonable" however it is quite obvious in some cases as to when it is unreasonable. It also relates to the fact that what is reasonable varies based on the location - eg next to a church is different to a residential street.

One off renovation is also reasonable however op could have cause to report to environmental health if it went on for a long time.

However op - Yanbu - what is legally allowed and what is courteous as a neighbour are 2 different things.

Gorillaandme Tue 01-Oct-19 09:42:35
@SmileCheese 1am was one occasion but we grin and beared work until 11.30/12 at night on multiple occasions. My husband even went round at 11pm one night because he gets up at 4am for work but they didn't answer.

Look at your local council website, it will tell you the permitted hours for noisy building work, this also includes noisy DIY but is slightly more flexible for DIY which is defined as doing it completely by yourself - if you have professional help even if it's your brother the plumber, it becomes noisy building work. In my area, NBW is allowed only 8-5.30 M-f and 8-1 Sat, not at all on Sunday, and DIY allowed 8-8 M-F and 8-5 Sat, not at all Sunday.

Any noise outside these hours, make a complaint and the council initially sends a letter or if very late night like in your example, will send the noise patrol round and get it shut down.

So allowing for trying to get on with the neighbours, I'd check your council's permitted timing and have a word with the neighbours first, giving them this info. Then report any breaches, because if there are any breaches, it means they don't care about maintaining good relations with you.

But as far as noisy daytime work in permitted hours, I'm afraid you've just got to deal with it. Good luck! It's not pleasant, but it will end at some point.

Yes, they are being inconsiderate by not telling you about the worst of the work, which would be a much more neighbourly thing to do.. Perhaps you could ask them what their plans are for the next days/weeks, and explain that on very noisy or disruptive days you can then arrange to be elsewhere which would help with the baby and dog. Nobody could object to that, and you will be able to stay on good terms with them, everything else being equal.

I googled the rules near me and DIY or noisy building it is 8am to 9pm M - S and 10am -9pm on Sunday.

1am is obviously ridiculous and I think 11pm is really pushing it as well, but unfortunately noisy jobs need to be done and day time is the best choice as most people are out then. Having had work done years ago I can say that the builders didn't always tell me what was happening when. They had a list of jobs and sometimes I would come home and find windows replaced or a wall knocked down. I had always let neighbours know we were having building work, but couldn't have told them what was happening each day as builders decided based on time or weather.

BarbedBloom Tue 01-Oct-19 11:49:41
I googled the rules near me and DIY or noisy building it is 8am to 9pm M - S and 10am -9pm on Sunday.

@BarbedBloom really? Are you sure? I don't know of any council who permits noisy building work on Sunday. The other hours sound excessive too, NBW usually has to cease by latest 6pm, and only non-noisy DIY allowed after 6pm. Maybe you were looking at a trading or industrial estate, but that really doesn't sound right for a residential area.

@CleansUpDragonPoo To be honest I was surprised as well. That is how I read it on here anyway. There is no separate section for employed builders, just the attached

Wow, thanks for that @BarbedBloom, wonder which council that is as the .Gov advice on statutory noise nuisance is :

What time can builders work in the UK on Saturdays and Sundays? On Saturdays builders are generally allowed to work between 8am and 1pm, but this can vary slightly with different councils. It does mean that workers can start at the same time as the rest of the week, but they are usually required to finish a lot earlier. On Sundays and on Bank Holidays most councils say that there should be no noisy work taking place.

The standard hours during which noisy work is acceptable is usually between 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday."

Glad my council follows the .Gov advice, think I'd be starting a petition / campaign if it were any different!

@CleansUpDragonPoo I am in South Wales, I don't want to post the exact location publically for obvious reasons, but am happy to PM if you're curious. Tbh our council are not great for noise complaints in general. Our neighbor plays loud music at 4am fairly often and we and many others have reported them only for nothing to happen at all. I imagine they don't care about building noise either.

Apologies for derailing your thread OP

@BarbedBloom it's okay I spoke to them now and hopefully they will let me know if really loud building work is taking place again.

Honestly, I wouldn't inform neighbours about any renovationa or expect them to inform me. As long as it's at sensible hours (1am is not). I'd be fricking irritated but I would be even if they had informed me. I might as them about duration if we were friendly enough but otherwise I don't see the need to communicate.

Actually, I don't think you're derailing @Gorillaandme's thread, @BarbedBloom, because the issue is around what's permitted legally, and what's generally considerate. I still think, and even more so in the face of your South Wales council's rules or non-compliance issues, that @Gorillaandme should definitely check what her council permits, and then make the council enforce the laws by complaining to the council every time the neighbours do noisy work out of hours.

It's one thing to go a little over time for the sake of finishing a job, and quite another to be constantly doing noisy work out of hours. It's very CF neighbours who ignore this, especially with a pregnant lady with a toddler living on the other side of the wall. Squeaky wheels get the grease, and if the neighbours aren't considerate, then the council needs to step in. But again, I have to say, that they can pretty much do what they like noise-wise during permitted hours.

@Gorillaandme, what do you do about your dog's anxiety during firework season, can you do the same now?

I googled the rules near me and DIY or noisy building it is 8am to 9pm M - S and 10am -9pm on Sunday.
This actually sounds reasonable to me. I find the whole not allowed to do xyz on Sunday to be old fashioned and Sundays and bank holidays are the best time to do renovation, do gardening and cleaning. And no, I'm but renovating or planning on doing it.