To think Universal Credit are cunts.

[CatCave]

To cut a long story short, I broke up with my partner and moved out of our home to rent on my own. This happened in July.

Last year when I was still with him and did not claim benefits I had two part time jobs and was taxed double on Job 1 and nothing on Job 2.

Job 1 offered me full time so I quit Job 2 but was still being taxed far too much.

I received a refund of this tax in my August wage. Universal Credit have counted it as my earnings and are not paying me anything this month.

I don't think this is fair. I have already paid for the tax once, had it refunded and now I'm effectively paying for it again through losing a payment which I would normally be entitled to?

I have to go to an appointment to appeal to a "decision maker" but have been told its very unlikely that they will change their minds.

When I received the tax rebate I used the money to pay off arrears I had fallen into by being taxed too much in the first place so its not as thought I spunked the money on crap when I should have saved it - I had no idea they would do this!

AIBU to think I should have been paid UC as normal?

What's more is that I have to attend the bloody job centre, I'm a single parent and work full time, its humiliating.

I’d rather they just gave the money with fewer conditions

Money doesn't grow on trees

@CatCave I know you would.
I am what you'd call a low skilled worker, low earner.
I don't know how the government is getting away with it. It is really troubling the different opinions between Labour and Tories. They pitch rich against poor it needs to stop.
They need a government who tries to benefit all.
In Ireland we have a similar payment, they assess it in your last years wage, if you earn extra they reduce the payment for the next year based on previous years wage there is no pay back just reduced the next year, it's a set weekly payment.
The whole set up.of UC is shocking, the amount if wages spent on administrative and accounts staff to crucify people each month, it is barbaric.

And of course it's not the frontline workers who are cunts it's those who designed this system based on how they think poor people should live, with not the first clue about what life is actually like if you are poor.

Lord Freud - massive cunt.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/01/architect-of-universal-credit-lord-freud-retires-from-government

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/16/lord-freud-disabled-people-distressing-nick-clegg

cointelegraph.com/news/a-trap-to-spy-on-benefits-spending-uk-government-tests-blockchain-for-welfare-payments

UC helpline staff - generally not cunts

UC decision makers - somewhere inbetween IME

Just to be clear, it's the system that's a cunt, not the poor sods who need to do the donkey work.
I do feel incredibly sorry for the people who have to work for them. They must get some horrific abuse which is completely undeserved.

I have asked for a mandatory reconsideration so I need to attend the job centre to take in my evidence, otherwise I usually don't need to go. From what PPs have said there isnt much hope I'll actually get anywhere though!

I think the problem is the last system made it so easy to do 2 days a week work and end up with a total package of doing a full time professional job.

That needed to change, but UC is too harsh.

Anyone out there on working tax credits should know they have a shock when they are moved onto UC and should start planning appropriately

There is lots of hope. DWP are supposed to be abiding by that ruling until/unless they successfully appeal the high court decision. This is relevant to you too, NewMe2019 but hopefully your MP is already on it.

gcnchambers.co.uk/unlawful-and-nonsensical-test-case-on-approach-to-income-calculation-in-universal-credit/

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/wages-and-the-universal-credit-assessment-period/

You're on the bleeding edge of the UC clusterfuck though so it may take a while and you need the best advice you can find.

You are not unreasonable but you are making a mistake in blaming the organisation that has to carry out the government's wishes.

Our elected government chose to implement this cruel and ramshackle system.

Maybe one day the country will elect someone else.

Yanbu. Universal credit is evil. Please remember that labour will scrap universal credit if they win the inevitable election. I support labour for lots of things but this is the one that will change our society most.

I am so sorry for what you've been through. Basically you are too poor to be trusted with your own money. Only rich people deserve to decide whether or not they should pay tax. That's the message and it's coming through loud and clear.

@ChloeDecker that's not how it works. If you're paying too much tax on two jobs, you call them and they adjust the tax codes so you're paid back in-year. You and your employer are responsible for providing the correct information to HMRC in the first place.

I think the problem is the last system made it so easy to do 2 days a week work and end up with a total package of doing a full time professional job

Spot the daily fail reader folks. Please give a specific example of a person who worked two days a week but because of their benefits package earned as much as a five day a week?

I help UC claimants a lot. When it goes well it works but most of the time there's problems. I have to constantly write on people's journals to get the correct legislation applied. I had a very poorly client a few weeks ago who hadn't been paid any rent element for two months and was beside himself with worry. Fortunately it wa ssorted with a few journal messages but the people on the phone lines don't really often know the legislation or what I'm on about.

It’s the politicians who introduced this, and continue to run it despite knowing the cruelty it causes, who are the cunts.

UC counts income after nontaxable pension and tax and NI is deducted. So when the original tax was taken then that income was not used against your UC in the months originally.

So if you ask for it not to be taken into account in the month refunded and not taken into account in the month it should have been paid - when does it get taken into account? Why should you have an extra few hundred earned income unaccounted for under the UC system and not other people?

When you get the tax back HMRC doesnt say this is x amount for june and x for july but you expect a person on UC to work that out? And then tell you that you have been over paid in those months where you over paid tax?

If your earnings exceeded this month then by definition you had more money in the month than you ever would have done if you were awarded UC and by that you are totally BU.

Be careful what you wish for because i have recalculated 2 peoples award that by moving income from a month they were paid double to a month where no earnings were recorded they now owe money as in we paid 1500 in 4 months and they were only due 700 of it. Put it this way if you earnings are more than your work allowance over the threshold of exceeds uc entitlement then none of this is used to reduce uc in the other month making you better off. Eg if your entitlement is £630 with housing and children, work allowance 287 therefore earnings exceed at 630/63×100+287 = £1287.00 if earnings are greater than 1587 then there is no benefit in shifting any of those earnings to another month with unused work allowance

Tldr if you dont work it out before you ask some cunt like me in the service centre will make sure you get your wish and theres a high chance you will end up owing money

YANBU
UC is immoral. People have committed suicide over it. It’s class war.

My understanding from the OP is that she wasn't on benefits at the time she overpaid the tax so if it is recalculated there should be no UC overpayment.

@EmeraldShamrock it’s awful being a uni student on UC. They deduct your maximum maintenance loan entitlement £ for £ whether you take the loan or not. I’m dreading next year, there’s no way I’ll be able to pay my rent unless I work at least 20 hours which I’ll have to at night, uni in the day and somehow be a mum to three kids in between. I’m going to struggle big time.

@snowball, with all due respect university is a choice. I quite fancy getting a degree but I know I can't afford it.

@snowball28 Hopefully the government will come to their senses by then.
See how the election goes.
It is a pity the government parties play the citizens off each other, the election could swing either way.

Why do people say ‘with due respect’ when they clearly don’t mean it.

Yes university is a choice, a choice I made when I was working part time and in receipt of tax credits. I invested £3000 (that I’m still paying off) and a lot of time and effort into an access course only to be moved over to UC and all of a sudden me and my children facing a very uncertain and scary future where if I don’t go to uni I’ve wasted a year and £3000+ and will be stuck in my dead end retail job for god knows how long or I do go to uni to ultimately qualify and have a whole new world opened up to me and a better quality of living for me and my children but I get into debt or face homelessness if I can’t pay my rent.

There is nothing wrong with me being frightened and uncertain and talking about it with @EmeraldShamrock.

I paid the tax before I became single and had to start claiming universal credit.

@EmeraldShamrock I’m really hoping something changes!! Everyone deserve the opportunity to better themselves via education and I’ve put so much effort in but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t scared over my future and how I’ll manage. Hoping the election brings good news.

They look at net income, if you got paid less salary because they took extra tax you would have received extra up

@snowball28 I hope so.

The Universal Credit system is designed to fuck people over to pursue the ends of reducing the government benefits bill, yes.

Treating tax refunds as income, even if it meant you paid too much tax in a period you weren't claiming UC, is one example of that. The "assessment period" practice is another.

Even if they look at net salary it is still a shit system. Especially taking a student loan into account as income, it is a loan not an income, to be paid back.
If the person doesn't graduate and pay it back, it should be a separate matter, not a just in case.
What about shift workers when payments overlap.
Would they take your current outing loans into consideration when deciding how much you need to live on. X has 800 outgoing Y has 400 so x should get more.