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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

No Annual Leave during school holidays

329 replies

Dodoluded · 30/09/2019 11:49

I’ve just been told that because I don’t have a child I can’t take annual leave during school holidays as my line manager needs to take that time off for child care arrangements and one of us need to manage the team (I do this when she is not there).

Basically she’s taking a week off either side of Christmas and has worked one day per week over the summer holiday and taken the rest as unpaid leave.

There are already four months in the year when I am not allowed to take any annual leave due to my workload.

AIBU to not agree to the holidays leave thing? None of this was explained at interview or before my probationary period finished.

They have just refused a leave request for next year as it overlaps with school holidays by four days although she currently has no leave booked for this period.

OP posts:
theretheirtheyrenotno · 02/10/2019 09:28

Not reading a full thread should be punishable by a six month prison sentence. Can't believe people are still doing the "why would you want to go away in school holidays?" crap. Even with answers given many times in the thread, it doesn't take much brain power to work out possibilities.

GrinGrinGrinGrin

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 02/10/2019 09:39

Hope all improves OPFlowers

EBearhug · 02/10/2019 09:43

You should join a union, but be aware that most won't take on pre-existing cases. In mine, you need to have been a member for at least 3 months.

WorldEndingFire · 02/10/2019 10:21

Sometimes unions will wave that clause, though - join! There is power in a union :)

uglyswan · 02/10/2019 10:47

This is standard in Germany. Employees with school age children have to be given priority at school holiday periods.

This is not true. Priority is given to employees under social aspects which include but are not limited to having school-age children. Other reasons may include: the employee's partner can only get that time off (e.g. teachers' partners), or the employee wishes to take leave following preventative medical care or rehab.

Nearlyshitmypantsthere · 02/10/2019 11:03

Hope you're ok , op 💐💐

BlackberryandNettle · 02/10/2019 11:06

100% this is discrimination. Go to HR - she cannot refuse you leave because of her childcare issues

Original poster
Dodoluded · 02/10/2019 12:29

Thank you everyone, I’m feeling pretty rough and have been sleeping a lot! I’ve found my union so I will call them this afternoon and see if they will be able to advise on this.

It’s been really interesting to read through all the responses so thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts Flowers

OP posts:
Brefugee · 02/10/2019 13:27

This is standard in Germany. Employees with school age children have to be given priority at school holiday periods.

It's not legally enforceable although it is standard practice in most companies to give preference to people who need to be off in School holidays. However, German law also specifies that employees are entitled to 2 weeks holiday in one go so as to benefit from the rest and recuperation that affords. In every company i have worked in the reality is that most people try to take 3 weeks off. And that means discussions are rife where some people get priority in summer one year and have to miss out the next. Those people tend to get priority for Christmas and Easter holidays.

In short they behave like grown-ups and talk about it. (it is also, of course, possible for a company to have rules about when holiday can't be taken, and plenty of companies close down between Christmas and new year so employees have to keep holiday back for that. Most people i know are not allowed to take vaction over month end - especially not over the end of a quarter, or year end.

Bourbonbiccy · 02/10/2019 13:45

We used to have staff who tried to say that they were more in need of annual leave in the school holidays than child free employees, it was clearly explained that this was absolutely not the case.

One individuals annual leave does not take precedent over another. We expected them to follow procedure and behave like adults within their departments to arrange holiday.

A firm should never try to priorities in this way,

BoomBoomsCousin · 02/10/2019 14:47

OP another thing it might be useful to point out to anyone senior who is looking at this policy for the first time is their potential legal liability if they have discriminated in hiring against women with kids in order to placate the favoured employee.

Noisinmaro · 02/10/2019 15:01

Your being unfairly treated....
Boo hoo who bloody cares whether an employee has kids or not....
When your at work your at work...your there to work....
Everyone has a job to preform...surely an employee manager or not can't covet every school holiday or public holiday...
Surely you request leave by asking your cover are they working...and they said yes I am...
If they say no well ok but how come they haven't asked you...
Surely it can't be assumed by this person that Halloween, Christmas, midterm break, summer is sacred to them only...and you the fool are there to cover...
If she is a manager then she needs to do her job and manage this situation FAIRLY...
If that lady manager wants a guarantee of every school holiday then she is in the wrong job, go be a teacher...
It may not be discrimination but it's Fairly UNFAIR TREATMENT TO a staff member...fair enough if a company delegates your leave but no ones business who has kids, I wouldn't be entertaining that crap....

Nearlyshitmypantsthere · 02/10/2019 15:33

Hope you're on the mend soon Dodo x

CripsSandwiches · 02/10/2019 15:37

YANBU I'd expect a bit of consideration for someone who has children (or any other commitment e.g. elderly relative, health issue etc) but 4 months where you can't take holiday is ridiculous. That should have been explicitly stated in the jib description.

nettie434 · 02/10/2019 20:14

That should have been explicitly stated in the job description.

Am I the only person wondering whether the line manager has deliberately ignored company policy. OP mentioned that her contract allowed for working from home but she was told she could not. I just wonder if the directors assumed the manager's pattern of only working 1 day during the holidays was fine with other staff or if other people have complained in the past and got nowhere.

RandomMess · 03/10/2019 22:35

How are you doing, made it home yet?

GrubbyCubLeader · 04/10/2019 19:09

How are you @Dodoluded?
Xxx

Original poster
Dodoluded · 04/10/2019 19:14

Thanks everyone. I went to work today, I’m so exhausted. There’s been a lot of decisions made whilst I was away and the team are totally miserable. HR weren’t in (WFH on Fridays) so I didn’t get a chance to speak to them even though I would have liked to. Line manager was ok but has given me a giant chunk of work to do and I’m not sure where she expects me to fit it in in my workload.

Thanks for asking about me.

OP posts:
LittleOwl153 · 04/10/2019 19:18

Oh dear just what you need - so now it's coming across as Dodo has complained so we all have to change... I hope the CV brushing up is successful! And that the peach is now behaving!!

AnotherEmma · 04/10/2019 19:36

Hi OP, new to thread.

Did I read that you're a union member? If so that's great, they can advise you and represent you if necessary.

I think there are actually several issues here.

Firstly, annual leave, WFH and flexitime - I don't think they can apply one rule/policy to her and another to the rest of the team - not unless it's specified in the employment contracts. If your contract says you get WFH and flexitime but they're not giving it to you, that's breach of contract. And as everyone else has said, the annual leave thing is ridiculous. (I can't believe her kids are 18, 16 and 10! FFS just send the 10yo to a holiday club for a week or two! And don't the children have a father who could take some time off, too?!)

Secondly, your role. If you're actually spending most of your time doing duties that are above and beyond your job description, they should review your role, give you a new job title and job description, and pay you a salary that reflects the work you're actually doing.

I suggest that you request a meeting with HR and/or a director to discuss all of the above. If they don't follow up in writing, write them an email or letter yourself to confirm everything that was discussed, promised and agreed. If that still doesn't resolve things you could raise a grievance.
See www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/dealing-with-grievances-at-work/

Actually, I think you should just focus your efforts on finding another job (I see you've already started Smile) as it sounds as if your line manager is a nightmare and the team morale is low. Unless they get rid of the manager (seems unlikely) or move you to another team, it's not going to be a pleasant working environment for you.

Hope your health improves very soon Flowers

LovePoppy · 04/10/2019 20:25

Well of course HR is allowed to WFH 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

I hope you have a restful weekend

NoSquirrels · 04/10/2019 21:52

Ah, that’s rubbish, Dodo.

Line manager was ok but has given me a giant chunk of work to do and I’m not sure where she expects me to fit it in in my workload.

I think this is one of those occasions where you have to say “Absolutely, I can add this to my work. Do you want me to prioritise it? If so, could you let me know which things I can drop to make that happen. Or is it not so urgent, as I can’t make time for it until [12th of Never]”

Push it back - politely - into being line manager’s issue to solve.

Sashkin · 04/10/2019 21:59

Line manager was ok but has given me a giant chunk of work to do and I’m not sure where she expects me to fit it in in my workload.

She doesn't, she expects you to fuck it up so she has an excuse for how badly she's treating you. Bullying a high performer is one thing, bullying an employee on a PIP has a lot of overlap with "setting goals for improvement" - if you complain it looks like sour grapes/lack of insight.

lyralalala · 05/10/2019 10:46

I think this is one of those occasions where you have to say “Absolutely, I can add this to my work. Do you want me to prioritise it? If so, could you let me know which things I can drop to make that happen. Or is it not so urgent, as I can’t make time for it until [12th of Never]”

This.

And do it via email so you have a trail. And if she replies to your email verbally email her a “just to confirm our conversation...” email as well

DarlingNikita · 05/10/2019 13:45

I agree with lyralalala and NoSquirrels, this is a deliberate tactic.

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