How much to pay neighbour for theft

[tippietoppy2]

We live in London in a converted building where there are several flats. We had some guests over to the communal garden, and during the visit one of our guests must not have secured the side gate properly (for a max of 30/45min). Our neighbour later said their bike, which they had secured with a bike chain, got stolen (they told us thief cut through chain with bolt cutters).
We were very apologetic to our neighbour, and asked if we could contribute towards the bike. Our neighbour has sent us an invoice for the bike purchase of £525 from 2017 and their bank account. They asked us to send them £550 to buy the current model.
We feel terrible their bike got stolen. We want to be a good and considerate neighbour, and want to contribute financially towards the bike. But TBH I was shocked by the amount they are asking for. We were not expecting to buy them a brand new bike. It's not like we stole the bike ourselves. We are not familiar with the bike involved, nor seen a police report for the theft.
We have not even bought brand new bikes for ourselves or our kids ever, always purchasing our family bikes (and even our children's buggies) 2nd hand. We also don't have the budget to pay them £550.
Our neighbour is evidently extremely wealthy with multiple kids in private schools (we are an ordinary family with kids in free state schools). Possibly they might not understand £550 is a huge amount to a normal family.
How much is fair and reasonable to pay towards the neighbours stolen bike?
a) £550
b) £275 - half the price of another brand new bike
c) £250 - full cost of a 2nd hand bike (eg buy same model on ebay/gumtree)
d) £125 - half the price of another 2nd hand bike
e) see if they can claim it under their home and contents insurance, and we contribute towards the excess. The bike was chained right outside their front door. Although I suspect they probably didn't report the theft to the police
f) £100 - goodwill gesture
Any other idea's or suggestions appreciated. Would like to try to resolve it so we all feel comfortable and happy.
PS The Freehold building insurance doesn't cover personal property

1. You need proof that the theft has been reported to Police.
2. Sit tight and do NOT pay a penny.

I can’t believe you’re being sucked in by this. They’re trying to make you feel like you’re the guilty one and that’s not right. Hope it gets sorted soon x

An offer of £100 to maintain a neighbourly relationship seems reasonable, but only after a police investigation

😬. I'd be stunned if the police investigated a bike theft in London.

The OP hasn't said how the gate was secured. They may have been very secure as long as they were actually locked. In the OPs OP she was happy to concede that it was her guest that left the door open. The bike wouldn't have been stolen otherwise. I think the OP needs to pay (like for like).

I would not offer to pay.

It's a communal garden. Not your private property

They left it chained up. They should've ensured that it was safely chained up.

If someone came into a communal garden with bolt cutters then it's still a communal garden. Whether the gate is lock is neither here nor there. They should have adequate insurance.

Not your responsibility at all if there is multiple flats who knew who was in and out

They are trying it on. Ask for the police report. You are not responsible, it is a communal garden.

You seem like such a lovley person but are you going to take responsibility for everything that happens in the communal garden ?

FunkyKingston: whether £500 is an expensive bike really depends on your idea of expensive. It has nothing to do with the theft and compensation in itself. You are fortunate to be able to describe such a bike as not being expensive.

I have always thought of how many hours of work at ......per hour would I have to work to buy something. It is a good yardstick.

It would be a good idea for the OP to watch and see if the owner buys a new one and where they keep it. If they lock it away where it cannot be seen, then that would indicate that they knew it was tied up in the wrong place.

I wouldn't pay anything. You didn't steal the bike or cut his lock off - leaving any possession in a communal garden has risks. Shame, but not your fault. He is mighty fucking cheeky to twist your kind offer by trying to take advantage. Tell him you've thought on it and have reconsidered your own level of responsibility in the situation.

You need to seek advice from your own insurer. At least they will offer you legal advice as to your position, at best they will follow the reporting process and assess whether you have any liability for the theft and then deal with it as your insurer.

Let them do the worrying and work for you!

To me paying is suggesting you are responsible. I wouldn’t as it suggests you are guilty of something which you aren’t.

Even your friends haven’t stolen the bike .

There is no need to be going to insurance companies , checking police reports . Simply talk to neighbor, tell them you have had time to think and realised it is a job for their insurance. End of .

Tell them to go and fucking whistle for it.

I agree with PPs who say that there is no evidence the theft happened during your party! It could have been a contractor who was working in one of the homes, or even one of your neighbours who left the gate open!

Only read a few pages so apologies if it's moved on. I would say something like "Given that this is a large amount of money and given that there is uncertainty over whether my friends actually did leave the gate open (they've subsequently said they're adamant this didn't happen), I am going to speak to the police for advice here as to my liability and what they recommend I should do in this situation. Can you let me have the police incident number and I'll let you know what they say, thanks."

You are not liable for their property unless it was a deliberate act on your behalf. We have been in this position before.

Person generating the post says her guest left gate open. Why should the neighbour who has lost the bike be out of pocket?

No, @IsobelElsie123, she doesn't. She says one of her guests "must not" have secured the gate properly, so it's only supposition. As it's a communal garden, it could have been anyone, or the thief could well have got in without anyone leaving the gate unsecured: he obviously came tooled up.

And even if one of OP's guests did leave the gate unsecured, that makes the guest liable, not OP. It's not unfair on the neighbour: if he chose to leave an expensive bike in a communal garden secured only by a chain, he chose to take the risk of theft.

If it was definitely one of your guests who left the gate unsecured and as a result their bike was stolen then I would say you are partly responsible because if it wasn't for your party they would still have a bike so not contributing anything would be a dick move

No, OP used the communal garden in a way she is entitled to use it. The reason the neighbour doesn't have the bike is that he chose to leave it inadequately secured in a communal area. Asking for a contribution is a dick move.

GreatBigNoise
in the OPs OP she was happy to concede that it was her guest that left the door open. The bike wouldn't have been stolen otherwise. I think the OP needs to pay (like for like).
The OP only conceded that the gate must have been her guests fault as the OP is clearly a nice person who just accepted what the bike owner said. The OP later says having spoken to the guest, they all assume the OP that they didn't leave the gate open so the OP doesn't believe it was the guests fault at all. So you are reading way too much into the language used in the OP. The OP has NO WAY of knowing how the bike got stolen. Neither does the bike owner. The OP has zero responsibility.

Not your fault, not your responsibility. Even if there's a police report, it's still not down to you. They live in London. Theft is rife. They should have chained the bike up, they should have insured it.

Can the neighbour pin point it missing in the 30 minutes the gate was unlocked. Or did they just notice it missing at some point?

Redshoesandtheblues Sun 29-Sep-19 18:08:59
How did you find out bike stolen? Did they approach you and say must have happened when you had guests round?
Who narrowed the window of opportunity down? And how?

and:

jackie2669 Tue 01-Oct-19 00:43:05
You seem like such a lovley person but are you going to take responsibility for everything that happens in the communal garden ?

and

DonKeyshot Mon 30-Sep-19 03:00:10
You're living in London where side gates can be secured with umpteen locks but bikes and other items left outside houses/flats and in communal gardens still get stolen.

You don't know if the side gate was left open by your guest(s) or if another resident left it open and, similarly, you don't know the time of the alleged theft or if it could have been prevented by a secured gate.

Your neighbours should be claiming on their household insurance and you should make it clear to them that, when offering your 'goodwill gesture', you had it in mind to buy them a more secure chain that could not be cut with bolt cutters.

Anything else is cheeky fuckery on their part.

and

TanyaChix Mon 30-Sep-19 14:31:37
I think I’d change my approach and say that your initial offer to give them a contribution was a gesture of good will but their expectation that you will now pay for a brand new bike to replace one which 1) should be insured, 2) is a theft which
you haven’t seen a police report for and 3) is a theft which isn’t something you are legally responsible for, is now making you re-evaluate your offer.

All of the above! Pay them nothing. And word of caution, be careful if you discuss this further with them or write any notes, that you don't admit liability. You are not obliged to replace their possibly missing item. Check your Safer Neighbourhood Team online advice about staying safe, it will tell you not to leave valuable items insufficiently secured in communal areas. Only the person who actually stole the bike is liable, and that wasn't you.

Having said all that, it would be nice if you came back with an update..

Was it reported to the police? Ask for proof, if no proof just ignore.
Have you seen the lock which was broken? If not, just ignore.

I wouldn't pay.

^ l^The OP later says having spoken to the guest, they all assume the OP that they didn't leave the gate open so the OP doesn't believe it was the guests fault at all

Ahh, I can't find where the OP has posted that she had spoken to the guest and that they had denied it was them. I'll re-read the thread!

I think they're trying it on! You are not responsible for the illegal acts of others - Someone entered your premises equipped with tools! There is no proof there is a link between a gate being left unlocked and the theft - ie The thief may have forced the lock anyway.

I'd pay a small percentage of what they're asking - We could say they're far more liable for leaving the bike in full public view!