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Original poster

How much to pay neighbour for theft

379 replies

tippietoppy2 · 29/09/2019 15:03

We live in London in a converted building where there are several flats. We had some guests over to the communal garden, and during the visit one of our guests must not have secured the side gate properly (for a max of 30/45min). Our neighbour later said their bike, which they had secured with a bike chain, got stolen (they told us thief cut through chain with bolt cutters).
We were very apologetic to our neighbour, and asked if we could contribute towards the bike. Our neighbour has sent us an invoice for the bike purchase of £525 from 2017 and their bank account. They asked us to send them £550 to buy the current model.
We feel terrible their bike got stolen. We want to be a good and considerate neighbour, and want to contribute financially towards the bike. But TBH I was shocked by the amount they are asking for. We were not expecting to buy them a brand new bike. It's not like we stole the bike ourselves. We are not familiar with the bike involved, nor seen a police report for the theft.
We have not even bought brand new bikes for ourselves or our kids ever, always purchasing our family bikes (and even our children's buggies) 2nd hand. We also don't have the budget to pay them £550.
Our neighbour is evidently extremely wealthy with multiple kids in private schools (we are an ordinary family with kids in free state schools). Possibly they might not understand £550 is a huge amount to a normal family.
How much is fair and reasonable to pay towards the neighbours stolen bike?
a) £550
b) £275 - half the price of another brand new bike
c) £250 - full cost of a 2nd hand bike (eg buy same model on ebay/gumtree)
d) £125 - half the price of another 2nd hand bike
e) see if they can claim it under their home and contents insurance, and we contribute towards the excess. The bike was chained right outside their front door. Although I suspect they probably didn't report the theft to the police
f) £100 - goodwill gesture
Any other idea's or suggestions appreciated. Would like to try to resolve it so we all feel comfortable and happy.
PS The Freehold building insurance doesn't cover personal property

OP posts:
Chocrock · 30/09/2019 18:27

I would pay the excess on their insurance and take a nice bottle of wine around.
I think it is unreasonable of them to expect more than that.

Tomkinz · 30/09/2019 18:31

Flats - that means a lease is involved. Most leases forbid storage in communal areas. The reason is generally liability from potential claims associated with that storage.

I'd look at my lease and if the "no storage" bit is in your, then it's fairly certain it's in his. Why is this relevant? Well, a gate is by its nature designed to be opened at times. There is nothing wrong with leaving the gate unlocked for short periods so people using that garden can go in and out and prpbably avoid using the interior communal areas - as happened that time.

What he's saying is that your right to use that gate and to leave it unlocked for brief periods, is trumped by his probably non existent right to use the garden as a storage area and insistence that the gate is always locked.

You don't own the land it was stolen from, the leaseholder does and he should try (probably fruitlessly) to claim from the landowner/leaseholder.

I would tell him that the lease contains a no storage condition to avoid things like this. You owe him nothing as it shouldn't have been there to steal. But, on production of a police report you'll contribute £50 on the basis that you admit no liability and that he tells you where he intends to store the replacement that's complies with the lease, so you don't have to bother about leaving the gate unlocked for short periods again.

Sara107 · 30/09/2019 18:31

They should have reported theft to get a crime number and then claim on insurance. At most you might then offer to pay the excess on the insurance. If they’re not insured, that’s not your problem.

18gougjj · 30/09/2019 18:31

You are not a insurance company. you don't pay new for old.

CountryGirl1234 · 30/09/2019 18:33

Although I agree it’s value is not worth 500 now I would still have to take this on the chin and say that you should have made sure the gate was locked. Seems a bit far fetched but if you can get them to quote the crime number to you before payment then I would ask for it. Say if it doesn’t show up within a month you will pay. Maybe they want to just make a point.

llizzie · 30/09/2019 18:34

They cannot just ask you to pay. You should not pay it. How often have they done this I wonder? Where did their wealth come from?

They should claim it on their house insurance. You are not liable for the criminal actions of someone else, whether you know the person or not. With that correspondence you can take them to court for damages for accusing you of being a thief. It is a criminal offence to accuse someone of that without proof. They should produce photos of the theft, not just the bike. I sincerely hope you have not fallen for the oldest trick in the book.

They have to provide evidence that the bike was theirs, and that they chained it up, and that the chain was cut. They will also have to show where it was chained to and you should ask them to show you the cut chain and padlock and you should take note of any sign that the bike was chained to the fence.

If you give them a penny they will take that as admission of guilt and may even ask the police to prosecute you for theft. You must give them nothing.

Jux · 30/09/2019 18:45

This is what contents insurance is for. They sound like CFs, and might be claiming it on their insurance, while putting the squeeze on you. Don't give them more than 100.

Wacawaca19 · 30/09/2019 18:51

Can they not claim it on their insurance?

fuzzyduck1 · 30/09/2019 18:52

Tell them to stick it up there bum why should you even offer to pay for a new bike for them

gill1960 · 30/09/2019 18:59

police reports and crime reference numbers first

They should also have house insurance to cover their belongings

This crime isn't your responsibility

SoupDragon · 30/09/2019 18:59

your guests actions resulted in a theft

No one knows that for certain at all.

ThistleTits · 30/09/2019 19:00

Side gate may have been left open for 30 mins max. In that time a thief just happened to be passing, noticed the gate unlocked, pulled their handy bolt cutters from their pocket and stole the bicycle?
The neighbour told you it had been stolen and it was your fault but hasn't reported it to the police?
I'd tell them to fk off tbh. The bike may well have been robbed, sold or lost but you're not responsible for that.
Do you even know for sure if the gate was left open?

ivykaty44 · 30/09/2019 19:01

Ask for the police crime number and offer £100 when this is forth coming

Jogonandshutup · 30/09/2019 19:01

You need to see that they have called the police and reported an ‘actual’ crime OP!

ivykaty44 · 30/09/2019 19:03

Oh the guests didn’t steal the bike, how can the guests or anyone else be responsible for the theft? Only a thief is responsible as no one forced them to steal

MsJRMEsq · 30/09/2019 19:07

pay nothing. They should have insurance and if anybody is going to pay then it should be your guests but only if the neighbours can prove with a police report and CCTV showing the time that the bike was stolen and it being stolen.

stickerqueen · 30/09/2019 19:08

Are you allowed to leave things in the community garden? we are not allowed to if we do Mr caretaker leaves a sign in the block saying he will remove the items left in communal areas in 7 days.

My neighbour had the buggy removed and destroyed by Mr caretaker last year.

in the tenancy, it says that items left in communal areas are left at the owner's risk

We have a locked gate and the caretaker always leaves it open when he's been I'm sure he would not take responsability if something went missing because he left gate open.

i would not give any money

SorryDidISayThatOutLoud · 30/09/2019 19:13

Look it doesn't matter if there was a gate or not. OP didn't steal the bike. If the postman had left the gate open would they be after the money from them?

If it's an expensive bike then the frame number will be logged by the police in case it ever turns up. If they haven't reported it then this is all one big convoluted lie. If they have then tell them you will pass on their details to your guest who may want to pay their excess. But you don't want to be involved any further as it was nothing to do with you. They might hopefully stop up about it all then.

FelicisNox · 30/09/2019 19:16

First of all, you don't know for sure it was one of your guests and actually, it is highly unlikely it was. You know these people, they're your friends so how likely is it?

It's more likely someone else slipped in unnoticed and stole it that is unconnected... a crime of opportunity as it were.

I also don't believe they are not insured so offer to pay the excess, no more than that.

I would also expect to see the crime number before paying out anything.

YANBU.

CharlieBIB · 30/09/2019 19:16

You should only be offering to cover the cost of their insurance excess if they have one. If they have a bike that expensive and are well off the bike will be insured. As previous posters have said, you can't be totally sure anything is your fault and, without a crime number they would not be able to claim on their insurance so you should not be paying them anything at all without both that and evidence of the claim being submitted/evidence of the excess having been paid. I can totally understand you're feeling bad but, as others have also said, this is why you have insurance and if they bolt cuttered the chain they will have easily got through the gate. Are you sure they're not just trying to make you feel bad/make an example because they noticed your guest had left the side gate open? Hugs to you xx

IsobelElsie123 · 30/09/2019 19:20

I think you should
Pay the full price. If you pay insurance excess their premium will go up next year if they make a claim. It doesn't make any difference if they have children at private school and (in your view) can shoulder the loss.

Tonnerre · 30/09/2019 19:22

Unfortunately you are liable for the theft because even if it was only 30 minutes and you would never pay for £500 for a new bike, it doesn’t matter - your guests actions resulted in a theft so morally you are responsible

Nonsense. Even if OP's guests were responsible, she has no liability in law for what they do. More materially, there is no evidence that the bike even existed, let alone that one of her guests left the gate open. This is a communal garden, so anyone could have left the gate open; and, of course, it may well be that the thief simply climbed over.

Tonnerre · 30/09/2019 19:23

Why, IsobelElsie? There is no way whatsoever that OP is liable for this loss.

Sb74 · 30/09/2019 19:24

@IsobelElsie123- are you being sarcastic or are you the bike people?? Why should op pay? It’s ridiculous!!!

sophe · 30/09/2019 19:25

Tell them at that price you will have to claim on your own insurance and that means you need them to make a legal claim against you establishing your liability, and for what. We'll soon see what sort of case they have.