wtf is raising these men

[Drabarni]

Aibu in wondering wtf are raising such shit men.
Thread after thread of complaints about how they don't do enough, can't do this or that, lazy, don't do their share.

I'm not saying that it's a woman's job, my dh wasn't brought up by his mum and I'm beginning to realise I got such a good one. Not boasting, he has his moments, but uselessness and laziness just doesn't figure.

There are men that do no parenting at all, even when at home.
The 80's/90's was a time when men were told to step up and be involved at all levels, and many did.
We seem to be going backwards.

I dont think it is always that. Dps parents are not great. His dad is awful and has always been of the opinion women should be seen.and not heard. Men should be waited on hand and foot and its fair game to beat your wife if she doesnt behave herself.

I am incredibly pleased to say that witnessing this shit has made dp the polar opposite of his dad.

We are bringing our son up to see girls and women as equals. I dont want to be the MIL responsible for some lazy arsed husband. No such thing as womens work in our house.

@c3pu - lol!

I don't think you're being unreasonable. There do seem to be a lot of crap men around.

I don't know any men like this. Sounds like you need to make some new friends.

By the way, they'll be plenty of women who don't pull their weight and are shit, lazy mother's. Difference being men don't tend to bitch about people online. So we won't hear of them 💁

My DH does a lot but I definitely do all of the emotional labour (birthday presents for his nephews, noticing when DS has outgrown clothes, all the reading about baby milestones etc etc. There was a great list on here a while back.).

I’d love to hand more of it over to him but

1. he doesn’t care that much about a lot of it
2. I end up reminding him to do stuff anyway so I might as well do it myself
3. If it’s hazy about which of us is to do something, it sometimes ends up being forgotten about by both of us or left to the last minute

I don’t know what the solution is. We have a cleaner (who we can barely afford but I’m hanging on to her with both hands for now).

lola
Aw, I see. I think mine is good by comparison to what I hear, but it shouldn't be good but normal and expected.
And he's fucked up as many times as me, so he isn't perfect.
He annoys me by going over things I've missed, he's higher standards than me.

Our lads are doing well on that front and future dil's are grateful, but they shouldn't be, it should be expected.
Dd isn't getting involved, it all sounds too complicated, no time for men and no kids. As a pp said, sometimes it seems quicker to do it yourself. Dd unfortunately, takes after me a million and one reasons why I shouldn't do it. By which time I could have done it.

Parents are parting as part of society. How can parents not have anything to do with it?

Yeah, I didn't explain that well at all.

I think asking who the fuck is raising these men is the wrong question to ask. Grown adult men who choose to do fuck all around the house are that way because they are lazy and don't have respect for their partners. The responsibility lies with them.

I have been told I am lucky because my husband does load of house work etc. It's not luck, it is what he should do as a grown adult who decided to get married and have children. My husband doing his fair share of housework and child rearing was never optional.

my DH is one of these lazy arseholes. I think it’s a combination of two things in his case. 1- all of his family live in filthy houses so he thinks it’s normal.
2- the men in his family don’t lift a finger. His mum does all of the housework, cooking, shopping etc plus works too. Her partner will call her to come and make him drinks etc and she does without a fuss.

So my DH has basically grown up thinking housework rarely needs doing and when it does it’s for the woman to sort out.

Her partner will call her to come and make him drinks etc and she does without a fuss. What reasoning is that?

I'll use you as a maid, yes ok then.

Because as soon as a dad even takes his kids to the park, women gush that hes absolutely amazing....its like when a man does something a woman does naturally, hes amazing?

MIL was a dreadful cook and a not very good housekeeper. She did teach everything she knew - it’s just not up to my standards.

Drabarni - I’ve no idea! It horrifies me. MIL tells me I’m lucky that DH “helps me out” if he does the smallest thing when she is here.

And yes I agree that men get praised for ordinary things women do every day. A nursery worker once told my husband he was wonderful for picking up from nursery occasionally. Never mind the 200 times I’d done it. Plus she had no idea that he was also a drunk who couldn’t always be relied on to come home!

My DPs mother left when he was 11, so he and his younger sister were brought up by his father (we are in our fifties so this was the 1970s onwards).

He learned from an early age that he had to pull his weight around the house. His father did everything that needed to be done for his kids as well as holding down a full-time job without complaining or trying to persuade gran to give him a hand.

As a result, my DP has never needed to be nagged by me about washing up, cleaning, washing clothes, food shopping, cooking, buying birthday cards etc. He just sees what needs to be done and does it.

It's socialisation.

Women are socialised into the role of housekeeper. men aren't. When people say they don'e "see" dirt in the same way, they do, they just don't see it as their role to do anything about it. Leave it long enough and it goes away.

I'm not saying that it's a woman's job, my dh wasn't brought up by his mum and I'm beginning to realise I got such a good one

I think it's the opposite to the woman job. Women need to stop modelling housekeeping and men need to step up,

There are three men I have known over the years who clean, cook, wash etc. All three men lost their mums at a young age so learned how to run a house along with their dads.

What bluebluezoo said! DP would definitely agree with that.

Late DH did the lions share after I returned to work full time. He also worked full time but he could take flexible hours which allowed us to minimise child care. He was brought up in the same way though, mum a refugee who worked in the day, his dad worked nights then was home for all the six children in the day. I am getting on a bit but I have noticed that my female colleagues return from maternity leave part time, even when they are the higher earner and it does not make financial sense. They are the ones taking leave for child sickness, juggling hours to see school plays etc. Which is fine on one level, because my workplace allows this. However where there are two parents this really should be shared, not least because it reinforces the view that this is a woman's role.

My DH was brought up as a little prince by his doting mum but as soon as he left home he became very self reliant. He does all the cooking and most of the housework too if I am honest. I am the one not pulling my weight but he never moans. I don't think he notices!

^^its similar here, although I do a lot of the cooking but he's perfectly competent as needed.

The most amusing thing is MIL goes on about how amazing he is 🙄 like she's created a super-male 🤦🏻‍♀️

I blame their fathers.
IME men who grew up with a dad who took responsibility for children and housework do the same.

I am getting on a bit but I have noticed that my female colleagues return from maternity leave part time, even when they are the higher earner and it does not make financial sense

This is one of the things that need to change. I am the higher earner, in a hospital. I found it easy to negotiate hours, compressed, part time, job share, time off for children etc. Is is almost expected.

Dh works in a traditionally male environment. A man there asking for part time or time iff for the school play would not last long, and requests would be met with “can’t your wife do it” . Part time and flexible opportunities don’t exist.

If it were acceptable for men to work flexibly, there’d be more part time roles and more men would do it.

IME men who grew up with a dad who took responsibility for children and housework do the same.

That is not the case with my DH. I think possibly the way FIL is waited on actually irritated him into not wanting the same dynamics

The sad fact is their children will most likely grow up to a) do the same or b) accept the same, so the cycle continues. Enabling them breeds them.

My dh was neglected and abused by his father, his primary carer, so he didn't want to be like him. He dragged himself up in an environment of dv and abuse.

So definitely didn't want to be like his father. Who went on to find other women who enabled him.
So I know they don't always follow.

@Drabarni not always, and in your case the father figure was very much unlikeable so you can understand the reflection and aversion. But in lots of families where it's normalised, expected and respected even, it's natural for sons to follow suit and for daughters to think that's what men are like.

I was brought up by a very progressive family, not a chance in hell I would abide a man walking over me and my brother wouldn't do it to his wife. I naturally chose an independent man who had a similar upbringing.

Anecdotal I know, but I really do think there is a strong argument for it.

purpleolive

I observed this in the area I lived and didn't want to be the same. My family weren't like this, but I wasn't thinking of marrying one of them, even though a small wc town in the NW

I do not know where I stand on this topic.All I wanted to say really was I rely on me.I am married and I have this block in my head and thinking where I will not ask twice for anything.If i do feel like I have to ask twice I will do it myself.Its a weird kind of independance that makes me very not sure of the word.I will not bow to any man by lowering myself.If I want something doing and I can;t do it I ask for help,should it be ignored and I feel it is I will not cause a scene I will bring someone in to do it who can do it. Then when I get the "well I would have done it" shit I ignore.Its done and sorted by me cos you wouldn;t.If pride,his,get dented then tough.I rarely ask for anything but when I do it is a genuine request,however he chooses to act reflects on what happens next.I see so many men who can talk the talk but not so many who can back it up.Why this is I don;t know. I look at my husband some times and he is his dad at times,the spitting image in backward ways.His mother is a doormat I won;t be.Then I look at my mum who panders to my 40 something brother and I see why he is like he is.We go out she has to be back to see to him..he will want his dinner soon...and he sits there and lets her...she did this not him...making his sandwiches for work etc...I shake my head in amazement at what these women do,My brother expects a wife to do everything from housework to working to letting him live the life of riley on his terms because thats what my mum still does for him...makes me sick...