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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want to be the messenger?

56 replies

LaCerva · 25/09/2019 21:15

Hi all. Looking for a few words of advice on how I should approach this tricky situation.

My brother-in-law and his wife recently separated after 30 years of marriage. Even though she and I have been friends as well as in-laws, I did not know until now that their relationship was an abusive one

  • mainly emotional but occasionally physical. She says that although she still loves him, there is no going back and is filing for divorce. Brother-in-law has been relocated and now lives alone after police were called. He was heavily reliant on her as he has several chronic health issues. He has to have no contact with her so is pleading with me to relay his apologies to her. I felt obliged to do this as he is my husband's brother, although he is obviously in the wrong. She is adamant that she will not take him back. How am I supposed to tell him this? He made it clear that if she refused him then he would not be able to carry on. I know he is absolutely at fault but I do not want to have a suicide on my conscience. I firmly believe that he would carry this out. There is no one else that will tell him (his family are defending him) so it has somehow fallen to me. I don't know what to do.
OP posts:
Mollymoo01 · 25/09/2019 22:17

Not only morally should you not pass on messages you will be in big trouble with the Police if you do.

He is still trying to abuse her through you, don’t let him! Tell the police and stop all context with him, if you can’t stop all contact then at least tell him you are not passing any messages.

JustanotherJP · 25/09/2019 22:24

Another person echoing that assuming he has a no contact bail condition or non Molestation order in place then they are normally defined as no contact, direct or indirect, which means no contact whatsoever by any means including not using a third party to be passing messages.

I would use that as an excuse not to get involved and tell him you can no longer be the go between.

You are in a hard decision, good luck OP.

Original poster
LaCerva · 26/09/2019 00:31

Thank you all for your replies. It is very helpful to have an outside perspective. This has really shown me that there really is only one solution. I would of course prefer not to be involved but family pressures make that difficult. I will be doing everything I can to support my sister-in-law.

OP posts:
Troglod · 26/09/2019 00:41

Look up ‘flying monkey’ op. It might help clarify things for you.

CandyLeBonBon · 26/09/2019 00:47

Just adding my voice to say leave well alone op and I hope your sil is no the road to recovery

Gingernaut · 26/09/2019 00:53

Typical guilt tripping of an abuser.

You're his proxy and he's using you to continue the harassment.

Tell him "No".

No more messages, no more contact with you (block him) and no more guilt tripping.

Why are his health issues anyone's responsibility but his own?

WhatTiggersDoBest · 26/09/2019 01:16

I would of course prefer not to be involved but family pressures make that difficult.

Nope. Sorry. That's the narrative you're buying into, and I suspect he's pulling your strings good to make you feel like that. You owe him nothing. Note he's not asking his brother to talk to the ex wife. Just ignore him unless he's talking about anything except the ex wife. Don't feed into his obsessive thoughts. Change the subject. Keep changing the subject. Don't engage with the topic at all. It's not about being disloyal it's about having boundaries and respect for a woman you're supposed to be friends with and who is probably quite vulnerable right now. If you really think this is a loyalty issue, ask yourself if you'd forgive yourself if you pressured her into returning to him, and she then killed herself because she's trapped with an abuser? Because right now you're saying his life is more important than hers, just because he's shouting the loudest about it, and I call bullshit on that.

For the sake of playing devil's advocate, let's just imagine for a minute he might not be trying to manipulate you and her (doubtful), and explore the alternative. If someone's genuinely suicidal, getting back together with their ex isn't actually going to make them better. A mental health referral, some sort of therapy and medication (and possibly hospitalization) is what they need.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/09/2019 01:25

If you do this, you are facilitating his abuse. Don't.

Broken11Girl · 26/09/2019 01:26

You don't have to be a messenger- tell him you won't get involved any more.
You've had a hard time, people are imagining olive involvement etc.
No-one knows he won't end his own life. Nasty as he may be, he might genuinely be at risk. Call the police or the local mental health crisis number (Google mh crisis your area) if you're worried.

Broken11Girl · 26/09/2019 01:27

Police, not olive

AzraiL · 26/09/2019 01:37

You've had a tiny taste of the kind of emotional manipulation he's subjected her to for years. And to ease your own sense of guilt (whilst playing right into his hands) you're thinking of doing exactly as he wants and approaching her, becoming another source from which she is being bombarded with his shit.

Well done.

Original poster
LaCerva · 26/09/2019 01:43

@WhatTiggersDoBest
Should've been clearer about this. When I say family pressures I mean the frustrating expectations of those like my husband's mother to "choose a side". Some of DH's relatives believe that SiL is exaggerating or making it all up which I know is a shameful thing to think.

OP posts:
justilou1 · 26/09/2019 01:50

No... continuing to pass messages is furthering his abuse! It is allowing him inside her house by contacting her via a third party. Don’t do it. Ever. Tell him (and all other family members) why as well.

Broken11Girl · 26/09/2019 01:57

That's difficult- don't pick a side, say something neutral like it's a difficult situation and change the subject

Seeingadistance · 26/09/2019 02:13

Why choose to be on the side of the abuser?

DonKeyshot · 26/09/2019 02:30

He made it clear that if she refused him then he would not be able to carry on

Your BIL is using you as a flying monkey and, in getting you to fly under the radar for him, he's continuing to abuse his wife

As for him not being able to carry on if she refuses him, I don't believe a word of it but if he were to do away himself that would be entirely his choice and entirely consistent with the bad choices he made when he chose to abuse his wife.

Tell your bil that you've passed his message on and that you won't be relaying any more such missives to his wife. Give your sil as much support as you can and don't resent your dh if he devotes time to supporting his brother.

I have no doubt those family members who are defending him will rally round and assume all the care his wife previously provided for his chronic health issues. Hmm

NicolaStart · 26/09/2019 06:10

It is understandable, but you made a mistake in passing his ‘apologies ‘ to her in the first place.

No apology comes with any kind of threat.

Develop a few phrases and stick to them: “I don’t feel comfortable stepping into this “ “ This is not my business “ “I won’t be getting involved “.

NearlyGranny · 26/09/2019 06:37

Abusive BiL is recruiting allies to continue abuse by proxy. As PP says, such allies are known as flying monkeys. Likewise the MiL asking people to pick sides needs to be told that anyone who doesn't speak out and condemn abusive behaviour is actually condoning and enabling it.

Sadly, all this disbelief, minimising and manipulation is a classic abusive response. Imagine how distressing this all is for the victim!

As for feeling responsible for any harm he threatens to do himself, put the thought from you. It's almost certainly emotional blackmail, and even if not, he is an adult and responsible for his own actions, including seeking help. If he calls threatening self-harm unless you communicate with his victim, you can call out the police to him.

Many a 'suicidal' abuser has been discovered calmly watching TV with a beer in hand by emergency services after alerting a former victim to their intentions!

On no account act as messenger. She has reason to cut him out of her life and doesn't need you letting him in by the back door.

Try reading "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft (yes, really!) for more insight. It's very readable and could usefully be passed round the family.

Quartz2208 · 26/09/2019 06:46

Yes by contacting her on his behalf not only are you breaking the police order you are facilitating the abuse
For these to be in place OP at least one event was bad and it seems as if by using the word occasionally physical you are downplaying this
Where is your DH supporting you in this. How much have the family let things slide because she helped him with his issues that did not give him a pass

ColdAndSad · 26/09/2019 06:51

Should've been clearer about this. When I say family pressures I mean the frustrating expectations of those like my husband's mother to "choose a side". Some of DH's relatives believe that SiL is exaggerating or making it all up which I know is a shameful thing to think.

Where abuse is involved and friends and family refuse to choose a side, and try to remain friends with both parties, they are actually doing the opposite of what they think they're doing.

If they don't condemn the abuse, both the abuser and the victim will experience this as their supporting the abuse. So they are choosing a side: they're choosing the abuser, and not the victim.

If there's been abuse, you have to condemn it.

Imnotbent · 26/09/2019 07:26

OK then tell MIL that you take SIL side and apologise for passing on his apologies, you didn’t realise he was manipulating you too.

Thirty years it has taken her to get out of this, you don’t need to defend your position to family, or defend her, you just need to respect and support her decision.

Thenotes · 26/09/2019 07:30

It's highlyikely that this threat is just a continuance of the emotional abuse.

If you really think he suicidal suggest he sees his doctor/call Samaritans etc. But be glad she's got the strength not to consider going back regardless of his threats.

Ghostontoast · 26/09/2019 07:30

Please distance yourself from him and don’t get involved.

I would worry in case he moves in with you and your DH and you are his “Plan B” carer.

Apolloanddaphne · 26/09/2019 07:33

Don't involve yourself with him. Continue to support your SIL.

LionelRitchieStoleMyNotebook · 26/09/2019 07:35

Isn't it easy to pick sides? You choose the side of the victim.

If he had a non molestation or restraining order or DVPO barring him from making contact, that includes indirect contact or through a third party. You are enabling him to breach the order and revictimise your SIL.
If he mentions it again tell him there is good reason he's barred from contacting her and you won't be doing his dirty work.

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