...to not continue to volunteer here even if it means DD must leave too

[Velvetbuzzsaw]

NC as possibly outing but I need your input.

TLDR: DD(11) is part of a weekly activity group run by volunteers. She was given a place on the basis of me signing on to help. But for various reasons (detailed below) I want to bow out of it, and as expected, the club's management has said DD must leave too in that case.

1. I asked DD how she would feel if she had to leave because I had to stop helping. Her first reaction was "No mummy! I love it". Then after a while she came back with "But if you can't continue mummy then of course I don't mind leaving." Bless her

1. She is only one of 2 girls in the group, the rest are boys 10-13. She joined this as she didn't get a place in Brownies/Rainbows/Guides (very cliquey mums). I was desperate to help her confidence and resilience increase as she was facing bullying and exclusion from other girls at school. And I think it has helped. DH and I must decide - is it beneficial enough (to DD) for me to continue volunteering?

1. I'm trying to kickstart a dead career that after 10 years and 2 DC, DH changing jobs and us moving town, is proving really, really hard. In short, we have no childcare and I'm working evenings, weekends basically all the time that kids aren't home.

1. Which brings us to the crunch. If it was turning up one evening a week that would be fine. But its also running camps, hikes and undertaking training. I'm already helping at the school PTA. DH is great with housework etc but would never volunteer for this.

1. 98% of the other volunteer adults are men and its a macho environment with NSFW banter and whatnot. If I was a sporty, outdoorsy mum I'd love it. But I'm not

1. Before you say, I deserve what I got and shoulda known it would be like that - I had no idea what these clubs are like. Never had them where I'm from (grew up abroad). But I dove in anyway. I still have no idea of what most of the games and activities entail or what is expected of me. But the only other female adult volunteer sort of made me feel like a clueless idiot. Well OK whatever. Until this--

1. Another adult helper, further along in the hierarchy than me, started acting very oddly. Being new, clueless and also foreign I think it bothered me more than it should have? He was helpful enough at first then was very very weird at other occasions. Once he was following me around at an outing we took the kids to yelling: "Whats your name? But what do I call you?" I blushed and snapped "You can call me ma'am." but I ran out of snippy comments after a while. Yes we had definitely been introduced a few times. I felt embarrassed and demeaned in front of the kids. He did this "whats your name" thing a few more times, tried the whole PUA Kino thing once (look up pick up artists "kino" technique) and then once snarled "Smile!"at me when we were alone. I know it doesn't seem like much but if you add up all the many little things that amounted to an intense feeling of discomfort (see book "The Gift of Fear") I'd had enough and just stopped coming to most evenings.

1. I did tell my immediate superior, the person I'm reporting to, that I wasn't going camping with them as this person made me uncomfortable. This was hard for me. The other day when I turned up to help I find he was put in charge of that evening's activities. My stomach literally sank and I felt ill. Again there's no real reason to feel this way.

AIBU to not want to go on volunteering here?

what a horrible thing to say about males in

There’s nothing offensive in KatieAlcock pointing out that males can now access all female only areas, if they claim to be women. I’m sure there are certain restrictions on where your husband can go with the girls, such as female shower rooms, etc. If he claims to be a woman, those restrictions will be lifted. Girlguilds is no longer female only as males can become members and share female facilities and rooms with the girls, if they identify as girls. Girls who are confused and claiming to be boys are supposed to be managed out. It’s now a unisex service.

Velvetbuzzsaw this all sounds pretty shitty, i am so sorry.

That club does not sound like a good environment for your dd, or the other girl, or for any children.

" Being new, clueless and also foreign I think it bothered me more than it should have?" "... tried the whole PUA Kino thing once (look up pick up artists "kino" technique..." "...once snarled "Smile!"at me when we were alone. I know it doesn't seem like much but if you add up all the many little things that amounted to an intense feeling of discomfort (see book "The Gift of Fear") I'd had enough and just stopped coming to most evenings."

"Again there's no real reason to feel this way."

Actually, there is every reason to trust your gut, as your complaint about the situation was not listened to. It does sound a lot and you are totally right to stop helping and stop your child attending.

It doesn't necessarily sound sexist to me it just sounds like your not fitting in.

Seriously? Have you actually read the post? It sounds like an old fashioned boys own club, OP and I wouldn’t have my daughter anywhere near them.

Velvetbuzzsaw could you put your concerns in writing and leave?

There should be loads of clubs she can attend (Taikwando, Judo or whatever) that you can just pay for her to attend and which do not require you to help at in order for her to be a member.

If she likes outdoorsey stuff and you are not averse to a religious group, maybe try a forest church group for kids.

"I'm already helping at the school PTA." Does this help your dd? If not, IMHO, bow out and use the time for a different club that does help your dd.

Good luck.

@Becles Thanks for the link - I've just filled in the registration of interest and received an automated response from Girlguiding.

I had to look up Kino. And I am bloody disgusted by what I'm reading...
'Punish'?!? PUNISH?!

I am sorry that you're going through this. Personally it sounds like you're both better off out of that environment.

All the sexist crap needs to be escalated. It sounds like the type of organisation with s higher structure? None of this is acceptable.

All this pick up shit is just so fucking lame. I do hope single women read this stuff and laugh and look out for it and when they see it in real life, run.

The OP is totally right to also run a mile from any club that exposes its volunteers to this utter shit.

You're not being unreasonable- no-one wants to be around someone who gives them the creeps. The others who say perhaps your OH can do it are giving a great solution if possible. You should leave, tho. Too much stress for anyone. Hugs xxxxx

If this is Scouts report it higher up the chain.

I've been involved in Scouting for a while (was a guide as a child) and this kind of shit is not acceptable in our patch. Yes there are more men as the kids get older (more women in Beavers and Cubs than Scouts) and they aren't 'delicate' but they're certainly not sexist bastards and are proud of how many girls they have in the troop. I'd like to think a leader who behaved badly in our patch would be told to get lost, despite the problem in getting leaders. And I'd want to know ...

I wonder if they need at least two female leaders (to allow for cover) to have any girls? That might mean the other girl has to leave too.

However, even if that is the case, it is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. It doesn't sound like a positive environment for either you or your DD.

@Moominmammaatsea

There's a hangout for guiding volunteers on MN to ask lots of questions.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/extra_curricular_activities/3507468-guiders-staff-room-part-4?msgid=89972337#89972337

First of all, thank you to all who responded. Mumsnet is indeed a lifesaver.
@Crosspelican (and others) Thank you! It never occurred to me or DH to consider how such a toxic macho environment might affect DD. She is so innocent now but eventually she might start to internalise the misogyny. Thank gods for the collective wisdom of mums.
@turnaroundbrighteyes @westcountrychicken and others who suggested DH do it. He commutes 1 hr to work and back plus travels a lot. No excuse I know but he'll never do it.
@BackforGood and others who asked how long I've been volunteering: almost 1 year but that's besides the point as I'm not a CF to let DD continue if I leave. If I leave she leaves.
@Lulualla @Beamur @KatieAlcock Wow! I've never heard about Woodcraft/Woodfolk?!? They sound lovely and more my thing (bit of a greenie) I'll look them up
@june2007 doesn't sound sexist to me it just sounds like your not fitting in you may be right, I don't fit into many goings-on in semi-rural England. I'm foreign and look it, I'm the Daily Mail's nightmare on two legs. BUT the sexism is very much there. Not against the kids, or other female leaders (many of whom are spouses of the male leaders) but a nasty upstart like me who dares to do -what exactly? I let on that I had any problems with Creepy Guy. I don't know where the hostility was coming from. One day I was literally the only woman in a group of leaders running an event when they started moaning how "Women are trouble" and ruin everything, even young girls are just immoral little things leading their upstanding sons astray etc all couched in banter. I did snap "excuse me I'm standing RIGHT HERE." but they carried on in a slightly different vein and I had obv ruined the mood
@Becles 1. No he was definitely not asking my group name, we don't have those. He was literally heckling me to show me he didn't care who I was or he found me forgettable or some form of negging. If I understood what was going on I wouldn't have been so confused and rattled. 2. Its not that I "dont fancy it now that she's in" I do love this group of kids and being outdoors (but not camping with strange men, lol)
@BringMoreCoffee you've put it well, Guides are seeming like the less worse option and I can endure the cliquey mums if DD is happy to deal with their daughters.
@katalavenete Although I'm not sure I'd know what to say if another adult told me to call her ma'am LOL surely you misread or just skimmed my long post. I only snapped at creepy guy to call me Ma'am because he was pestering me when he certainly knew my name.
@Moominmammaatsea Oh no, I feel your pain, your poor DD. That was very shitty of them. Its often down to the Leader and how enlightened/educated they are. I hope you've found something she likes to do now.
@IsobelRae23 wow, that is really insightful. I didn't realise how I wasn't helping DD's issues with other girls by placing her with boys. I told DH and he agrees. That is a great point, thank you!
@fairybatman Its not Cadets but now that you mention I will look them up too as a friends DD is loving Sea Cadets.
@Ellmau I didn't think of that - I will ask before I do anything that jeopardises the other girl

@highheelsandbobblehats yes there really is this shitty PUA nonsense and many young women are dealing with it not knowing wtf is going on. I only found out the hard way, after a couple of married Dads at school got touchy feely. I had to go look up what all this deliberate arm touching was all about. Nope I don't know why they target me either.

OP, if it's scouts (or cubs etc) then of course they can't ask her to leave if you can no longer volunteer. If it IS scouts, I'd be enquiring higher up in the district about this.

Also, you could transfer to another unit?

My dds so beavers and cubs (also rainbows and brownies ) and absolutely love it. Most of the leaders are female! In fact at one point, cubs had more girls. I do help out regularly. But not officially as a leader.

Op that's utterly horrible the way you've been treated.
I really hope it isn't scouts as this is not the ethos or experience you should be having.
If it is I would report it to the higher up as they would crack down on this for sure!

What's best for your daughter is what's best for you also, to see you belittled by a man will never be good and as previous posters have said can scew her view and relationships with boys/men.

I don't have much advice but I do hope you can find a solution from some of the PP.

I second everyone saying this isn’t healthy for your daughter at all being exposed to this and her having you there validates that this is normal behaviour which you are accepting of and teaching her that mummy thinks this is normal.
Take your daughter out and tell the people up the chain why you are quitting.

Whether you choose to leave or not, I still hope you will escalate this up to area or District or Region or whoever supports the structure of the Group, rather than not challenging it and leaving it exactly the same not only for the next volunteer that comes long, but also as a role model for the young people in the group.

If it’s cubs / scouts it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest . A friend and I ran 2 groups ( beavers and cubs for about 5/6 yrs ) and when we complained about a different leader in our groups completely inappropriate behaviour towards another leader and mum we got completely shafted . We even took our complaint to regional level but because the ‘Scouting family’ is so cliquey and basically inbred in our area we were the ones who had to stand down as our position was untenable and the GSL / county all closed ranks to keep the whole mess quiet.

Sorry forgot to say if your dd is outdoorsy has she tried horse riding as you could learn somewhere with a pony club centre which opens lots of opportunities for socialising / helping at weekends etc .

Second what Floralnomad says, a riding school of the largish organised type may well be a Pony Club Centre - look the nearest up at pcuk.org

@Moominmammaatsea i’m so sorry I didn’t reply to you straight away.
It was very easy. I’ll PM you tomorrow.