...to not continue to volunteer here even if it means DD must leave too

[Velvetbuzzsaw]

NC as possibly outing but I need your input.

TLDR: DD(11) is part of a weekly activity group run by volunteers. She was given a place on the basis of me signing on to help. But for various reasons (detailed below) I want to bow out of it, and as expected, the club's management has said DD must leave too in that case.

1. I asked DD how she would feel if she had to leave because I had to stop helping. Her first reaction was "No mummy! I love it". Then after a while she came back with "But if you can't continue mummy then of course I don't mind leaving." Bless her

1. She is only one of 2 girls in the group, the rest are boys 10-13. She joined this as she didn't get a place in Brownies/Rainbows/Guides (very cliquey mums). I was desperate to help her confidence and resilience increase as she was facing bullying and exclusion from other girls at school. And I think it has helped. DH and I must decide - is it beneficial enough (to DD) for me to continue volunteering?

1. I'm trying to kickstart a dead career that after 10 years and 2 DC, DH changing jobs and us moving town, is proving really, really hard. In short, we have no childcare and I'm working evenings, weekends basically all the time that kids aren't home.

1. Which brings us to the crunch. If it was turning up one evening a week that would be fine. But its also running camps, hikes and undertaking training. I'm already helping at the school PTA. DH is great with housework etc but would never volunteer for this.

1. 98% of the other volunteer adults are men and its a macho environment with NSFW banter and whatnot. If I was a sporty, outdoorsy mum I'd love it. But I'm not

1. Before you say, I deserve what I got and shoulda known it would be like that - I had no idea what these clubs are like. Never had them where I'm from (grew up abroad). But I dove in anyway. I still have no idea of what most of the games and activities entail or what is expected of me. But the only other female adult volunteer sort of made me feel like a clueless idiot. Well OK whatever. Until this--

1. Another adult helper, further along in the hierarchy than me, started acting very oddly. Being new, clueless and also foreign I think it bothered me more than it should have? He was helpful enough at first then was very very weird at other occasions. Once he was following me around at an outing we took the kids to yelling: "Whats your name? But what do I call you?" I blushed and snapped "You can call me ma'am." but I ran out of snippy comments after a while. Yes we had definitely been introduced a few times. I felt embarrassed and demeaned in front of the kids. He did this "whats your name" thing a few more times, tried the whole PUA Kino thing once (look up pick up artists "kino" technique) and then once snarled "Smile!"at me when we were alone. I know it doesn't seem like much but if you add up all the many little things that amounted to an intense feeling of discomfort (see book "The Gift of Fear") I'd had enough and just stopped coming to most evenings.

1. I did tell my immediate superior, the person I'm reporting to, that I wasn't going camping with them as this person made me uncomfortable. This was hard for me. The other day when I turned up to help I find he was put in charge of that evening's activities. My stomach literally sank and I felt ill. Again there's no real reason to feel this way.

AIBU to not want to go on volunteering here?

Is it Cubs/Scouts? If so, I made the mistake of signing up my (registered blind) daughter, in the hope that she could participate equally (and w/ regard to the Equality Act) in outdoors activities. Nope, toxic. It was THE most nepotistic organisation she/we have ever had the misfortune to encounter. All the volunteer leaders' children were pack leaders (sorry, can't remember the right titles & terminology) and it was SO alpha. Everyone else's kid was given a stretching personal challenge (think scaling mountains/swimming across lakes) to enable them to achieve their silver Cubs/Scout award; my daughter, who as stated previously is BLIND, was given a personal challenge to catch a ball (that'll be a no, because however much you want it to happen, she can't see the chuffing ball coming towards her because, drum roll, she is registered blind).

On the other hand, Girlguiding is absolutely magnificent and I would speak to the central organisation (membership is all coordinated centrally rather than locally) to organise a place for your daughter.

And, I would reiterate the opinion of posters above that the current organisation's attitude is discriminatory; are they asking boys to leave because their parent/s won't or can't commit to volunteering every week?

Gosh, I hope it doesn’t turn out to be cubs/ scouts. I have two girls and two boys with them and it’s a big part of social time. I feel quite sad hearing the organisation is so shit elsewhere.

From what you describe I’d leave, even if she is not aware now your Dd will grow in awareness over time and it won’t be a nice realisation when she does. Look for something to replace it with

I understand (indeed support) an organisation having a policy of their child being able to jump the waiting list if an adult signs up to be a Leader. If that adult has then volunteered for a couple of years (ie, not just signed up for a month so their child can leapfrog the waiting list) then there is no way they would be expected to leave at a point when their adult stepped down.

This. We have a policy that says parents/guardians that states the place is lost if the parent leaves in a set time, but that's never more than 18 months of regular help.

It sounds a very unhealthy environment. He's harassing you & the other stuff is dire too. There are so many groups like this tho, can you have a search for similar ones not under that organisations umbrella that don't insist on parental presence too? And ditch the PTA. It's not a priority tbh is it? And it's usually a thankless task IME. Put your daughter & re establishing your career first.

Gah, I hope this isn't scouting. I don't understand your explanation for why girlguiding wasn't possible?

Whatever group this is happening in it sounds toxic and can't be good for either of you in the long run.

Is there a national body OP? If so YABU not to take this further up the chain.

Although I'm not sure I'd know what to say if another adult told me to call her ma'am.

Of course you need to leave, even if it means your daughter has to leave too. And I'm pretty sure I'd want my 11 year old out of there rather than leaving her in that environment with creepy bloke and hardly any girls.

As PPs said, send DH if you're sure you're happy with DD going at all, or are you sure guides wouldn't take you if you volunteered with them? Maybe volunteer for rainbows (no long hikes!).

Also, it is completely fine for you to say you need to prioritise work over your DD can attend a group. You don't need along catalogue of reasons - if you have to work, you have to work. She will be ok, and if she's started secondary there may well be loads of clubs etc she can join there.

I think it really depends on the group) regional atmosphere. If you have a lot of nasty toxic types running it, it'll be horrible. If you don't, it can be fun.

Is there another group nearby?

It sounds awful. I'm guessing it's scouts, my DD has done Beavers, cubs and now scouts as she wasn't interested in the girly stuff they did at Rainbows, and has always had a great time. All the leaders are amazing, and they aren't all men. Cubs used to do a rota for parents to help as they were short staffed, but I'm sure some parents must have been unable to take part (those at work, single parents with other children etc) and I'm quite sure their children wouldn't have been penalised.

Your set up does sound toxic and I agree with PPs that you might want to consider whether it's good for your DD. Is the a cadet group locally? But whatever you do about that, please do also report the leaders to the next level up in your area, it's appalling that they can behave like this!

I volunteer. I enjoy what I do and it is very fulfilling. It is not without a few problems.

If you don’t like it you can’t do it. It’s just not for you. I don’t see why your DD can no longer go though. It doesn’t sound great does it. I try to make everyone welcome, there are no exceptions.

Lots of people are suggesting Guides instead (which I would second) except the OP has already said her DD didn’t get a place in Guides!

You need to step down.

If you're convinced your DD is benefiting from the environment of the group, though I'm very doubtful based on your description, then tell you DH he needs to step up for you DD's benefit. You do your share of parenting.

Try a Guide unit slightly further away. If they need more Leaders your DD should get a place. I started volunteering precisely for this reason.
We tried Woodcraft Folk. DD liked it but DH wasn't willing to volunteer and it wasn't a night I could do.
I wouldn't continue in your position OP.

No guarantee of no inappropriate males in Guiding now you can click your heels three times and say "I'm a woman" and be a Guider.

If this is Woodcraft, maybe try Scouts. If it's Scouts, try a different group (and keep looking if necessary - my older DC is in Scouting and the groups locally vary a lot in the male/female ratio.)

@underneaththeash Please would you let me know how you went about settling up a Rainbows group? And how much national support you received and how much effort/time you had to expend? In addition to my 11-year-old who is now flourishing in Guides, I have a daughter of three. There's no local Rainbows group but I think I've been motivated by this thread to consider setting one up, especially as I've seen how much my elder daughter is thriving in a girls-only club.

pinkjellyfish true, but OP might not have tried volunteering with them to skip the queue. The cliquey mums made it sound unappealing previously but it's now the less worse option. Or she could try going about further afield.

Or, y'know, just stop.

98% of the other volunteer adults are men and its a macho environment with NSFW banter and whatnot.

In a kid's club? How the fuck is that ok? Even if it's when the kids are out of earshot, it's not ok for volunteers to behave like that.

If it is genuinely such a macho laddish atmosphere, it's not something that would be a good environment for kids.

@KatieAlcock what a horrible thing to say about males in Girlguiding. My husband has been a Unit Helper in Brownies for over 5 years now. Being a male in Girlguiding is not a new thing, and they don’t need to claim to be female to volunteer. Everyone goes through the same DBS checks wherever they volunteer when it’s working with children.

As for the OP, getting a place in a Guiding unit shouldn’t have anything to do with cliquey mums, so I’m confused by that. All waiting lists are held on a national database and places should be allocated by date on the list (there are some other criteria that supersede this e.g. existing member moving up gets priority over non-members). If you feel like this wasn’t the case, then do complain. I’d be very surprised if Guide units didn’t have space, especially if you were willing to volunteer.

@Moominmammaatsea

Please would you let me know how you went about settling up a Rainbows group? And how much national support you received and how much effort/time you had to expend? In addition to my 11-year-old who is now flourishing in Guides, I have a daughter of three. There's no local Rainbows group but I think I've been motivated by this thread to consider setting one up, especially as I've seen how much my elder daughter is thriving in a girls-only club

Easiest way is to register online and have a chat with your local commissioner. She's a local volunteer responsible for the area and would probably suggest that you volunteer with a unit to see how it goes or may have everything ready but lacking a willing volunteer.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/get-involved/become-a-volunteer/register-your-interest/

Why would you want tour daughter to do an activity where she is one of only 2 girls, and all but too leaders are make too. You say she’s having problems with girls, she’s best off in an activity with girls, to befriend them, and build her confidence. Not in an almost all male environment, such the wrong approach.

It doesn't sound it is the right place for you, but don't force your child to leave if they enjoy it. It doesn't necessarily sound sexist to me it just sounds like your not fitting in.

@Velvetbuzzsaw As a Girlguiding commissioner,I think you have mixed up two issues

1. you were offered a place for your daughter on condition that you volunteer and now she's in, you don't fancy it. Trust me, the amount of parents who do this I'm quietly pleased that they are keeping their side of the bargain (after promises to volunteer for a term I've had verbal and email abuse, calls and emails ignored or denied. Don't get me started on parents not turning up when they were needed for ratios)

2. whatever is going on with the person making you uncomfortable and the group dynamic. I'd suggest either speaking to the group leader or going up the chain.

Btw was he asking for the name the group gave you? Bluebell, Akela, Wise Owl etc? That was the first thing that came to mind - it's a very scout and guide thing new people don't 'get'.

This sounds as if it has cult-like characteristics. Compulsion to be involved, emotional abuse, inappropriate behaviour. I'd be out of there and I'd also be flagging up the worrying behaviour of the men involved. Why not ask your husband to take over your role and see what he makes of it?

If this group is one of the cadet forces please please raise this with someone senior before you make a decision. The macho atmosphere, the NSFW banter and the misogyny have no place, there are still some packets where male volunteers and cadets seriously outnumber us, but there are people trying hard to change this.

If you need any help in who to speak to etc. please send me a message.